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re: Satanic Temple puts up display at Michigan Capital
Posted on 12/23/14 at 11:32 am to Fun Bunch
Posted on 12/23/14 at 11:32 am to Fun Bunch
For all of the emoticons, I am more than willing to listen to your riveting argument that unequivocally demonstrates there is no God. This should be good.
(and see, no emoticons)
(and see, no emoticons)
2
Posted on 12/23/14 at 11:33 am to Displaced
quote:Depends how consistent a person is with their theology.
but chalking everything that happens to good people as "part of God's plan" is a pretty weak excuse, don't you think?
I believe that everything ("good" and "bad") that happens is ultimately part of God's plan. I also don't subscribe to the notion that people are essentially good and deserve good things. My theology is centered around the relationship a perfect and holy God has with imperfect and sinful humanity. Humans need God but God doesn't need humans and God doesn't owe us anything.
Posted on 12/23/14 at 11:35 am to Wolfhound45
quote:
For all of the emoticons, I am more than willing to listen to your riveting argument that unequivocally demonstrates there is no God. This should be good. (and see, no emoticons)
Atheists response= *****crickets******
Cue the name calling.
Posted on 12/23/14 at 11:36 am to Displaced
We live in a fallen world. It is that simple. Good and bad happen to everyone that lives on this world. If only good happened to those who believe in God, and only bad to those that do not, then how would that demonstrate any degree of faith?
Posted on 12/23/14 at 11:37 am to Wolfhound45
quote:
For all of the emoticons, I am more than willing to listen to your riveting argument that unequivocally demonstrates there is no God.
I don't know if I am falling for a troll, but you can't prove a negative. Can you provide evidence that Zeus didn't create everything?
Posted on 12/23/14 at 11:39 am to FooManChoo
quote:Well said brother. This is the inherent difference in our arguments. We seek a city whose builder and maker is God. Their world exists within their own senses and limited ability to understand and interpret His creation.
FooManChoo
Posted on 12/23/14 at 11:42 am to DestrehanTiger
quote:Not trolling in the least bit. I am an evangelical Christian who is thankful for the goodness and mercy of my Savior, Jesus Christ.
I don't know if I am falling for a troll, but you can't prove a negative. Can you provide evidence that Zeus didn't create everything?
As far as proving a negative, then why do your counterparts state there is no God? They cannot prove (or disprove) their position. And I am fine with that. It is faith. Both your position and mine. But faith none the less.
As far as Zeus, what degree of worship do you see today for him? There is an element of evidence there if you are looking for it.
Posted on 12/23/14 at 11:49 am to Wolfhound45
quote:
I am an evangelical Christian who is thankful for the goodness and mercy of my Savior, Jesus Christ.
This is probably not the place to get into this argument, but this phrasing has always bothered me. Even as a person that was raised Catholic, it never made sense. What is Jesus saving us from? The hell that he created?
quote:
As far as proving a negative, then why do your counterparts state there is no God?
Most, if not all, of the non-believers in this thread never claimed that there is no god.
quote:
And I am fine with that. It is faith. Both your position and mine. But faith none the less.
My position doesn't require faith. I just simply don't believe. I am not actively saying there is no god; I am saying I don't believe that there is a god.
quote:
As far as Zeus, what degree of worship do you see today for him? There is an element of evidence there if you are looking for it.
There are reports that fewer and fewer people are going to church and worshiping in the US as the years go by. Should I take that as the evidence of god's existence waning?
Posted on 12/23/14 at 11:51 am to Wolfhound45
quote:
As far as Zeus, what degree of worship do you see today for him?
Means absolutely nothing. Completely irrelevant.
Can you prove that Spiderman doesn't exist?
Or can you prove how a man can part a sea? Or collect 2 of every species when there are millions, many of which are landlocked on islands or an island continent would have been impossible to gather? Or how a bush can talk?
Posted on 12/23/14 at 11:59 am to BayouBlitz
quote:This is the fundamental difference between the worldview of the naturalist and the Christian. You believe only that is natural or material is what exists, and thus everything has to be explained through natural means and processes.
Or can you prove how a man can part a sea? Or collect 2 of every species when there are millions, many of which are landlocked on islands or an island continent would have been impossible to gather? Or how a bush can talk?
The whole point of the burning bush, Red Sea crossing, and the flood story is to show that they are supernatural works of God which cannot be accomplished by man.
Posted on 12/23/14 at 12:02 pm to BayouBlitz
quote:
This is probably not the place to get into this argument, but this phrasing has always bothered me. Even as a person that was raised Catholic, it never made sense. What is Jesus saving us from? The hell that he created?
As a fellow catholic, it's important to understand the wrongness of evangelical Christianity as in it goes against the bible but that's neither here nor there. (The gospel of Matthew clears it up if you are interested)
But to understand it, you have to accept that evangelical Christians make it all about them. They can't get into heaven unless they burden others with their narratives about faith and they can't get into heaven unless they try their damnedest to get you in too.
They are all sorts of wrong. Notice there's no evangelizing in other faiths.
Posted on 12/23/14 at 12:08 pm to mahdragonz
quote:
you have to accept that evangelical Christians make it all about them. They can't get into heaven unless they burden others with their narratives about faith and they can't get into heaven unless they try their damnedest to get you in too.
Incorrect.
Posted on 12/23/14 at 12:09 pm to DestrehanTiger
My apologies for not copying and pasting your responses. I am working from an iPad and it is quite difficult to do this since I did the latest IOS update.
Jesus is saving you from your sin (Matthew 1:21, Romans 3:23).
Hell was not created for man. It was created for the devil and his angels (Matthew 25:41).
Several in this thread have unequivocally claimed there is no God. I am simply asking them to prove what they assert to be true.
Your final comment is an acknowledgement of your faith in your own senses. And I am fine with that.
The ongoing secularization of our country (and the world as a whole) does not bother me in the least bit. Nor does it lessen my faith in God.
Jesus is saving you from your sin (Matthew 1:21, Romans 3:23).
Hell was not created for man. It was created for the devil and his angels (Matthew 25:41).
Several in this thread have unequivocally claimed there is no God. I am simply asking them to prove what they assert to be true.
Your final comment is an acknowledgement of your faith in your own senses. And I am fine with that.
The ongoing secularization of our country (and the world as a whole) does not bother me in the least bit. Nor does it lessen my faith in God.
Posted on 12/23/14 at 12:10 pm to BayouBlitz
quote:Sorry that you cannot see the rather easily established correlation. A more effective response would have been to discuss the rise of Islam.
Means absolutely nothing. Completely irrelevant.
Posted on 12/23/14 at 12:11 pm to TbirdSpur2010
quote:+1
Incorrect.
Posted on 12/23/14 at 12:12 pm to mahdragonz
quote:Wut?
As a fellow catholic, it's important to understand the wrongness of evangelical Christianity as in it goes against the bible but that's neither here nor there. (The gospel of Matthew clears it up if you are interested)
quote:Not true at all. While Christians are commanded to share the Gospel with others, it isn't a requirement to go to Heaven. I think your works-based Catholicism has influenced your interpretation of this matter.
But to understand it, you have to accept that evangelical Christians make it all about them. They can't get into heaven unless they burden others with their narratives about faith and they can't get into heaven unless they try their damnedest to get you in too.
All obedience, including evangelism, should be done out of thankfulness that God has saved us. If you are joyful about your own salvation, why wouldn't you want to share it with others so that they, too, might be saved?
quote:That's not true, but even if it were, it wouldn't invalidate the Christian message which is accepted through faith, and it is a message that must be preached so others can hear it.
They are all sorts of wrong. Notice there's no evangelizing in other faiths
"How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching?" -Romans 10:14
Posted on 12/23/14 at 12:15 pm to Wolfhound45
quote:
Sorry that you cannot see the rather easily established correlation.
Please establish this correlation.
How does the popularity of a religion, in any way, prove the existence of a single creator?
What does it tell us, then, that the number of non-believers is outgrowing the believers in this country?
You know what is just as possible, and far more scientifically likely, is that an alien ship dropped a load of feces from their UFO on the Earth, containing microscopic organisms, which then evolved and eventually became us.
Prove that didn't happen.
Posted on 12/23/14 at 12:15 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
All obedience, including evangelism, should be done out of thankfulness that God has saved us. If you are joyful about your own salvation, why wouldn't you want to share it with others so that they, too, might be saved?
The way I see it, I'm always happy and ready to give an answer for my faith and share it with those who care to find out more about it. If not, it's no skin off my nose--my salvation doesn't depend on whether I proselytize to others or not.
Posted on 12/23/14 at 12:22 pm to BayouBlitz
quote:
is that an alien ship dropped a load of feces from their UFO on the Earth
Where did the aliens come from? Prove it.
Posted on 12/23/14 at 12:27 pm to TbirdSpur2010
I have a problem with a religion whose founders were all Jews and never strayed from their belief system or practices, including Jesus. And one guy shows up and says Jesus spoke to him from Heaven and voila, Christianity is formed.
I find it hard to understand if what Paul teaches was supposed to be "gospel" was so important, why didn't Jesus teach this? Did he forget? And when he returned, why not teach this to his actual followers?
The problem with Christianity is, if you take Paul out of the equation, you're left with a liberal Jewish sect. And had Rome not annihilated Jerusalem, and then the second destruction of Jerusalem not occurred, James and his church would have had a far greater impact on what we view as Christianity today.
Instead, James (who many argue was Jesus' brother) is given one little epistle and is basically ignored, Peter not much more and Paul's writings become the standard... a man who never met Jesus.
I find it hard to understand if what Paul teaches was supposed to be "gospel" was so important, why didn't Jesus teach this? Did he forget? And when he returned, why not teach this to his actual followers?
The problem with Christianity is, if you take Paul out of the equation, you're left with a liberal Jewish sect. And had Rome not annihilated Jerusalem, and then the second destruction of Jerusalem not occurred, James and his church would have had a far greater impact on what we view as Christianity today.
Instead, James (who many argue was Jesus' brother) is given one little epistle and is basically ignored, Peter not much more and Paul's writings become the standard... a man who never met Jesus.
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