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re: Robert’s insist that tariffs are a tax on the American people, and a tax needs to come

Posted on 11/6/25 at 8:37 am to
Posted by IMSA_Fan
Member since Jul 2024
570 posts
Posted on 11/6/25 at 8:37 am to
I don’t think Thomas has ever clearly voted against Trump’s interests in a SCOTUS decision
Posted by Taxing Authority
Houston
Member since Feb 2010
62653 posts
Posted on 11/6/25 at 8:37 am to
quote:

I'm curious how Thomas votes. He's been rejecting his textualist roots lately towards what appears to be partisanship. If he sides with the admin I think it will be safe to say he's no longer a textualist.
Yep. It's kinda like the war powers act. President can take immediate (emergency) actions, but has to go back to congress at some point. The tariff delegation seems pretty broad, and that may be what undoes it. Congress should write better laws.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
467695 posts
Posted on 11/6/25 at 8:37 am to
quote:

What are you talking about?

I provided you the text of the case to show that your argument about the temporary nature of the emergency was an important issue in the ruling.

I'm giving you the opportunity to support your argument with facts/citations.

I've given you this opportunity 3x now?
Posted by lepdagod
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2015
5560 posts
Posted on 11/6/25 at 8:38 am to
quote:

There are all kinds of fees imposed on domestic and foreign entities without congressional approval, that are not considered taxes. There are also fees and expenses imposed on American citizens, and foreign visitors, that are not considered taxes.


Give some examples
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
467695 posts
Posted on 11/6/25 at 8:39 am to
Here's my summary of the admin's arguments

Posted by Auburn1968
NYC
Member since Mar 2019
25254 posts
Posted on 11/6/25 at 8:39 am to
quote:

Name an economist thats says tarrifs are not a tax?


Tariffs are a tax on imported foreign goods.

Posted by UptownJoeBrown
Baton Rouge
Member since Jul 2024
7587 posts
Posted on 11/6/25 at 8:40 am to
What’s even more clown world is that Obama’s lawyers said it wasn’t a tax but Roberts said no it was a tax and so it’s good.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
467695 posts
Posted on 11/6/25 at 8:40 am to
quote:

I don’t think Thomas has ever clearly voted against Trump’s interests in a SCOTUS decision


His random and irrelevant dissent about Jack Smith's appointment was kind of a red flag
Posted by JimEverett
Member since May 2020
1992 posts
Posted on 11/6/25 at 8:40 am to
quote:

NEVER? No. Just not via the IEEPA.


Then why not focus on that? Why focus on whether a tariff is a tax? Just stick to the question of whether Congress gave the President the power to tariff at all in the IEEPA.

There is a reason he is talking about a tariff as a tax. I have said what I think his reasoning could be.

And remember - no one is or has argued that the President has the power to tax/tariff without Congressional approval, so it cannot be that issue he is exploring.
Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
135783 posts
Posted on 11/6/25 at 8:41 am to
quote:

I provided you the text of the case to show that your argument about the temporary nature of the emergency was an important issue in the ruling.

You provided an opinion. It's not worth ferreting through individual submissions or rationale.
I provided you with the text of the law.
Posted by wackatimesthree
Member since Oct 2019
10780 posts
Posted on 11/6/25 at 8:43 am to
quote:

You posted a link to Ashlen who is a flaming leftist

You clearly follow her


Shhhh.

The adults are talking.
Posted by jb4
Member since Apr 2013
13710 posts
Posted on 11/6/25 at 8:43 am to
Why does anybody listen to the cal bear named slow whatever.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
467695 posts
Posted on 11/6/25 at 8:44 am to
quote:

Why focus on whether a tariff is a tax? J

Because the admin is trying to "imply" the tariff authority, but if it's a tax, then they will require more than just the implication and will need more explicit statutory authorization. Because the executive can't just manufacture taxes willy nilly, due to the Constitutional issues presented.

quote:

Just stick to the question of whether Congress gave the President the power to tariff at all in the IEEPA.

The "tax" issue is a digression of that issue. I think it's being blow up by people being "clever" making the ACA ruling reference (as I predicted yesterday in real time) and wont' be a significant factor in the decision. It's going to be a Major Question Doctrine decision, I bet, which won't need this level of pedantry.

Posted by wackatimesthree
Member since Oct 2019
10780 posts
Posted on 11/6/25 at 8:44 am to
quote:


If he maintains his principles, I could see 9-0


As a lawyer, you are more aware of the tendencies than I, so sure. That could also happen.
Posted by winkchance
St. George, LA
Member since Jul 2016
6175 posts
Posted on 11/6/25 at 8:44 am to
quote:

Robert’s


Douche Canoe Statist.
Posted by IMSA_Fan
Member since Jul 2024
570 posts
Posted on 11/6/25 at 8:45 am to
quote:

Widget XYZ normally sells for $10,000. The United States imposes a 10 percent tariff of $1,000. The manufacturer absorbs the tariff and still sells the item for $10,000. Was it a tax? If so, who was it a tax


The tax is on the shareholders / ownership of the company. It decreased their net income by $1k (or $1k minus income taxes).

Posted by wackatimesthree
Member since Oct 2019
10780 posts
Posted on 11/6/25 at 8:45 am to
quote:

You posted a link to Ashlen who is a flaming leftist

You clearly follow her



I will say this, though.

One of us knows who this person is. One of us has no clue.

Which one is likely to be the follower?
Posted by BTROleMisser
Murica'
Member since Nov 2017
10028 posts
Posted on 11/6/25 at 8:46 am to
quote:


quote:
What a total mess


An orange boondoggle.

tsk.



Just immediately defers to TDS.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
467695 posts
Posted on 11/6/25 at 8:47 am to
quote:

You provided an opinion.

Yes, the opinion on the Biden student loan scheme that mirrors this tariff argument rhetorically-legally.

You're trying to distinguish the two with this "temporary" argument, so I asked you to support it within the text of the prior ruling. That's how this works.

You don't logically get to say a prior case is inapplicable and then rely on non-relevant arguments about that case

quote:

I provided you with the text of the law.

Which does not include the word "tariff"

It uses broad language similar to the authority granted by the HEROES Act.

The Trump admin relied on similar interpretation without textual support as the Biden admin did.

I believe the court will strike down the Trump admin's actions for the same reasons as they did the Biden's admin's actions, because the two cases are quite similar legally.
Posted by BTROleMisser
Murica'
Member since Nov 2017
10028 posts
Posted on 11/6/25 at 8:48 am to
Oooooh... Roger and the other TDS nerds on this board... DESTROYED.
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