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Posted on 6/2/26 at 2:00 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
It's absurd to you because you haven't grasped the argument I'm making.
I understand exactly what you're saying and it doesn't make it any less absurd.
Posted on 6/2/26 at 2:06 pm to AlterEd
quote:If you understand what I'm saying, then you must be using a different definition of the word "absurd".
I understand exactly what you're saying and it doesn't make it any less absurd.
If the Bible is truly God's revelation, then what I said makes perfect rational sense and is not in the slightest bit "absurd".
If you don't believe the Bible is God's revelation, then so be it, but it being God's revelation is not irrational or absurd, and neither is it clarifying what came before if it is God's revelation.
You could just say that you don't believe it.
Posted on 6/2/26 at 2:07 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
You could just say that you don't believe it.
Except that isn't what I'm saying at all. And this is the crux of the entire issue. I alluded to it earlier. This is interesting to watch the reaction of a lot of Christians to this stuff because if this ends up going the way it looks like it's going it's actually going to validate a lot of what the Old Testament was saying. And yet, here you are, opposed to it anyways.
The thing is, Christians are of this mindset that they are the only ones to know what's true or false. It is arrogant in the extreme. They cannot even share credit enough to admit that their stories are borrowed from older sources with different beliefs.
Christians and Muslims are the only people in the world who share this arrogant delusion that they are the only ones who know what the frick is going on and everyone else is frickin wrong. Period. It's no wonder they're always fighting with one another
This post was edited on 6/2/26 at 2:12 pm
Posted on 6/2/26 at 2:13 pm to AlterEd
quote:I'm opposed to it because it actually is NOT what the Bible teaches. It's what some people--like yourself--think the Bible teaches. I'm arguing that it doesn't teach that at all, and that those who think it does are assuming the Bible is borrowing from Ancient Near Eastern mythologies rather than having its own truth claims that come from God, Himself.
Except that isn't what I'm saying at all. And this is the crux of the entire issue. I alluded to it earlier. This is interesting to watch the reaction of a lot of Christians to this stuff because if this ends up going the way it looks like it's going it's actually going to validate a lot of what the Old Testament was saying. And yet, here you are, opposed to it anyways.
quote:It's not arrogant to believe God. He is the one who determines truth, not us, and if we take Him at His word, we are not being arrogant.
The thing is, Christians are of this mindset that they are the [embed]only ones[/embed] to know what's true or false. It is arrogant in the extreme. They cannot even share credit enough to admit that their stories are borrowed from older sources with different beliefs.
quote:Again, if we take God at His word, then of course we're not going to be open to other truth claims.
Christians and Muslims are the only people in the world who share this arrogant delusion that they are the only ones who know what the frick is going on and everyone else is frickin wrong. Period. It's no wonder they're always fighting with one another
This post was edited on 6/2/26 at 2:14 pm
Posted on 6/2/26 at 2:13 pm to AUveritas
quote:
In Deuteronomy 32:9, Yahweh is one of the lesser gods, inheriting his portion of the earth - Israel.
This is a very old source. Likely pre-Babylonian exile.
quote:
In Psalm 82, he takes control of the other lesser gods' inheritance because of how poorly they rules. This places him above the other gods. The Jews move from polytheism to henotheism.
Yes and there is more to it. This was written during the exile. In their pre-exile religion, Yahweh could only be worshipped in his own domain - in his inheritance. This is why the Israelites had to leave the Egyptian city and go worship Yahweh in the wilderness. It’s why why David goes into the land of the Philistines, he complains that he can’t worship Yahweh there and has to worship other gods. It’s why the Syrian king has to take two cartloads of Israelite soil back with him so that he can worship Yahweh.
When they were exiled, they became creative and invented reasons why they could or would be able to worship Yahweh… because he was going to take over the inheritance of all his brothers’ lands… becoming the authority over all the earth including Babylon, so once Yahweh takes Babylon as his new inheritance, he can then be worshipped there by the Jews.
Psalm 82 isn’t about the Jews worshipping other deities and then worshipping only Yahweh. Psalm 82 isn’t about going from polytheism to henotheism. Even post exile the Jews had shrines and temples and worshipped many gods under Persian rule. It was all about them being able to worship Yahweh in a foreign land that wasn’t part of his inheritance from Deuteronomy 32.
quote:
In Exodous 6:2-3, the 2 gods that Israel were torn between, the historic god El and the newer warrior god Yahweh are combined into one God.
Those sneaky scribes. Even as El and Yahweh were attempted to be merged, others like Baal and Yahweh were trying to be split apart.
quote:
In Isaiah 40-45, written during the Babylonian captivity, we see that the Yahweh/El God has become the only God.
Are you sure? There’s a whole lot of “my god”, “our god”, “Yahweh the god of Israel” and more in those chapters.
Posted on 6/2/26 at 2:14 pm to AlterEd
quote:
And I explained why I'm not going to engage with people who want to quibble over translations of 6,000 year old texts. The word Elohim is a perfect example. You're wrong about it and so is Foo.
I provided a logical explanation and quoted the MT and LXX. Did you read it? You might learn something or at least be able to explain why you feel differently than me.
Posted on 6/2/26 at 2:16 pm to AlterEd
quote:
Over 1,000 years before.
It started with Adam and Eve after the world was created...not before. Adam was the first man created.
This post was edited on 6/2/26 at 2:17 pm
Posted on 6/2/26 at 2:17 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
Again, if we take God at His word, then of course we're not going to be open to other truth claims.
And again, you come to this conclusion based on one possible meaning of one verse. A translation that is not even universal among your fellow Christians although you will try to claim otherwise. These conversations will always end the same way and it's why I don't tend to engage with you much. It's a waste of time. By now you should have realized that you participating in fruitless debate and give up as the Bible tells you to.
Posted on 6/2/26 at 2:18 pm to Squirrelmeister
quote:
What is the Bible anyway? A collection of myths compiled from earlier myths on stone tablets and redacted by hundreds or thousands of scribes writing on goat skins.
No.. It is written by God’s inspiration of 40+ authors.
It holds one unified, redemptive message: God is reconciling sinful mankind to Himself through the work of Jesus Christ.
That's what the Bible is. You should perhaps read it sometimes. It's quite clear that you haven't, at least not with good intentions and motivations. You've read about it.. and you've read with other "scholars" have said about... that's clear. But you've been listening to the wrong voices. Might do you some good to listen to a few actual biblical teachers and scholars, and then read the Bible with a genuine attempt to see what it's all about.
Posted on 6/2/26 at 2:18 pm to Ailsa
quote:
It started with Adam and Eve after the world was created...not before. Adam was the first man created.
That's funny, because the Sumerians say the exact same thing but they said it over 1,000 years before the Hebrews said it. Which is the entire point.
Posted on 6/2/26 at 2:19 pm to AlterEd
quote:
AlterEd
Oh look.. squirrel's got himself a running buddy.
Posted on 6/2/26 at 2:20 pm to MemphisGuy
quote:
Oh look.. squirrel's got himself a running buddy.
Oh look, someone who isn't reading the thread. I have disagreed with squirrel many times in this thread. Just in the past couple of pages I've pointed out he is wrong about the meaning of the term Elohim.
What we have here is more typical knee-jerk "Christian" reactionism. If I don't agree with you, you're the enemy. It's frickin boring.
I'm just glad that we are now kinda talking about in which way could the Bible be looked at differently rather than whether or not Christians will deny their faith. That discussion that went on for about 40 frickin pages wasn't within the scope of the OP of this thread. A "Bible changing revelation" doesn't imply that the Bible will be invalidated. Instead, and like I mentioned in the OP, it will be confirmed as accurate, but people will realize they have been looking at it the wrong way.
This post was edited on 6/2/26 at 2:30 pm
Posted on 6/2/26 at 2:29 pm to AlterEd
quote:Not at all. I don't come to any conclusions based on a singular verse, but look at verses within the fuller context to understand it. It's how Christians are supposed to read their Bibles, rather than cherry-picking words, verses, or passages and inserting meanings into them, or by interpreting the Bible based on ANE contexts.
And again, you come to this conclusion based on one possible meaning of one verse.
quote:My arguments are not based on one translation or another, but on the totality of the Scriptures. I'm happy to look at the original languages if you want to discuss that, though.
A translation that is not even universal among your fellow Christians although you will try to claim otherwise.
quote:It may be a waste of time to you, but not to me. As long as I have some time, I think it's good to engage people with false views of what God's Word teaches.
These conversations will always end the same way and it's why I don't tend to engage with you much. It's a waste of time.
quote:It's not a fruitless debate or discussion when it is in a public forum, being read by others.
By now you should have realized that you participating in fruitless debate and give up as the Bible tells you to.
If this were a private discussion, I would not engage you as I am, because you are lost and need to be saved through Jesus Christ, and these arguments are truly fruitless without you being converted. But because this is more or less a public discussion, I engage for the sake of others who are reading it.
Posted on 6/2/26 at 2:31 pm to AlterEd
quote:As I've said, this is your conclusion based on a rejection of revelation. You assume that the truth is what was written first, not what was clarified by the eye-witness later.
That's funny, because the Sumerians say the exact same thing but they said it over 1,000 years before the Hebrews said it. Which is the entire point.
Posted on 6/2/26 at 2:32 pm to AlterEd
quote:
Just like you're dismissing out of hand the comments of our lawmakers who have had access to the classified files and say these things are "supernatural", "interdimensional", and appear to use Stargates and portals. Also the POTUS who has recently said they're declassifying and releasing extraterrestrial material.
The most likely explanation is that the info in the classified files is bogus.
Posted on 6/2/26 at 2:32 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
As I've said, this is your conclusion based on a rejection of revelation.
No, that's my conclusion because it is a verifiable fact.
Posted on 6/2/26 at 2:33 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
If this were a private discussion, I would not engage you as I am, because you are lost and need to be saved through Jesus Christ
Look at the arrogance on display here.
Posted on 6/2/26 at 2:36 pm to Squirrelmeister
But you verses like Isaiah 41:28-29
I look but there is no one—
no one among the gods to give counsel,
no one to give answer when I ask them.
29 See, they are all false!
Their deeds amount to nothing;
their images are but wind and confusion.
I look but there is no one—
no one among the gods to give counsel,
no one to give answer when I ask them.
29 See, they are all false!
Their deeds amount to nothing;
their images are but wind and confusion.
Posted on 6/2/26 at 2:37 pm to AlterEd
quote:
No, that's my conclusion because it is a verifiable fact.
Source?
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