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re: Religious Leaders Told to 'Prepare Now' for UFO Disclosure and 'Bible-Changing' Revelation
Posted on 6/2/26 at 2:38 pm to AlterEd
Posted on 6/2/26 at 2:38 pm to AlterEd
quote:The "fact" of chronology of documentation does not address the point I'm making.
No, that's my conclusion because it is a verifiable fact.
You are basing your understanding on chronology and a naturalistic view of what the Bible is. You do not accept that it is revelation from God, so therefore you must default to it being like any other human-originating writing. Because you believe that, the best way to understand similar claims between them is to assume that one (the Bible) developed from the others (Sumerian or other older texts/myths).
If Christians are right about the Bible being fundamentally different from other texts due to its supernatural and revelational origin, then it would be false to conclude what you are concluding.
This post was edited on 6/2/26 at 2:39 pm
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Posted on 6/2/26 at 2:40 pm to AlterEd
quote:Answer me this: do you believe that you are a sinner, deserving of eternal judgement by God, and therefore are trusting that Jesus died to take away the guilt of your sins?quote:Look at the arrogance on display here
If this were a private discussion, I would not engage you as I am, because you are lost and need to be saved through Jesus Christ
Posted on 6/2/26 at 2:43 pm to MemphisGuy
quote:
No.. It is written by God’s inspiration of 40+ authors.
Your dogma.
quote:
It holds one unified, redemptive message:
Univocality. A dogma.
It certainly isn’t based on evidence. It is what you have decided because you really want it to be true, despite the strong evidence to the contrary.
Yahweh brags about making the Israelites sacrifice their firstborn sons by passing them through the fire so as to defile them. Yahweh states he detests human sacrifice and the thought of it has never crossed his mind. Only the most dogmatic can take two opposed contradictory statements and say they are saying the same thing.
quote:
It's quite clear that you haven't, at least not with good intentions and motivations.
I feel the exact same way towards you.
quote:
You've read about it.. and you've read with other "scholars" have said about... that's clear. But you've been listening to the wrong voices.
Rather than being spoon fed wishful thinking by apologists, you can read peer reviewed material by legitimate biblical scholars and historians. I feel the same about you, that you are listening to the wrong voices.
quote:
Might do you some good to listen to a few actual biblical teachers and scholars
Done, and ongoing.
quote:
and then read the Bible with a genuine attempt to see what it's all about.
Likewise
Posted on 6/2/26 at 2:49 pm to Squirrelmeister
quote:Can you stop pretending that you believe what do based solely on the evidence? You deny Jesus was a historical person in spite of the evidence.
It certainly isn’t based on evidence. It is what you have decided because you really want it to be true, despite the strong evidence to the contrary.
Posted on 6/2/26 at 2:51 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
You deny Jesus was a historical person in spite of the evidence.
And he does it with such hubris.
Posted on 6/2/26 at 2:52 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
Answer me this: do you believe that you are a sinner, deserving of eternal judgement by God, and therefore are trusting that Jesus died to take away the guilt of your sins?
I believe that we have all sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. Where you and I differ is that you believe that simply believing that Jesus died for your sins and all one needs do is recognize that to be saved, I believe that one also must follow the model he set forth for how to live ones life. And that he isn't the only person to have shown a legitimate path. I believe John 14:6 should be read from an inclusive standpoint where Jesus is saying that it is through his example one is saved. And as I told you previously, and predicted accurately, this is what these discussions between us will always come down to. You telling me I'm not a Christian because I don't see things the same way you do. It's arrogant and it is the very mindset that needs to be broken by hook or crook if this world is to ever see any real peace.
I see you and the Muslims in much the same light. Arrogant fools who are responsible for the vast majority of the worlds ills because you read a frickin historical document the wrong way.
This post was edited on 6/2/26 at 2:54 pm
Posted on 6/2/26 at 2:54 pm to AlterEd
quote:So you don't believe the gospel, and therefore you are still dead in your sins, according to the Bible.
I believe that we have all sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. Where you and I differ is that you believe that simply believing that Jesus died for your sins and all one needs do is recognize that to be saved, I believe that one also must follow the model he set forth for how to live ones life. And that he isn't the only person to have shown a legitimate path. I believe John 14:6 should be read from an inclusive standpoint where Jesus is saying that it is through his example one is saved. And as I told you previously, and predicted accurately, this is what these discussions between us will always come down to. You telling me I'm not a Christian because I don't see things the same way you do. It's arrogant and it is the very mindset that needs to be broken by hook or crook if this world is to ever see any real peace.
This is why I said what I did.
And no, it's not arrogance to take God at His word. It would be arrogant for me to base its truth on my belief in it, rather my belief in it on its truth. Whether I am the focal point or not is what determines whether or not it is arrogance. It's no more arrogant to believe that belief in Jesus is the only way to salvation than it is for you to deny that.
quote:Aren't you being hypocritical by condemning me for not reading the Bible the way you think I should? Isn't that "arrogance" to not believe the way you do?
I see you and the Muslims in much the same light. Arrogant fools who are responsible for the vast majority of the worlds ills because you read a frickin historical document the wrong way.
This post was edited on 6/2/26 at 2:56 pm
Posted on 6/2/26 at 3:01 pm to AUveritas
quote:
But you verses like Isaiah 41:28-29 I look but there is no one— no one among the gods to give counsel, no one to give answer when I ask them.
I don’t want to sound like a dick or anything, but you are arguing Isaiah 41 is monotheistic yet in the verse you quoted it includes “among the gods”. Do you see a problem?
quote:
See, they are all false!
Check out that word I bolded. In Hebrew it can mean “wicked” or “trouble”.
And one Septuagint tradition:
quote:
For from the nations, behold, no one; and from their gods there was not one declaring; and if I should ask them, “From where are you?” they would certainly not answer me.
For their idols are spirit and emptiness;
their molten-images are wind and nothing.
This is Israelite cheerleading. Its boasting. Nothing more. It’s saying the other gods of other nations suck compared to Yahweh.
In case you think the “no one” part of the verse means there are literally none except one deity, let me show you this:
Zephaniah 2:15
quote:
This is the exultant city that lived securely, that said in her heart, ‘I am, and there is none besides me.’
Now do you think Nineveh was the only city? Or that the author believed Nineveh was the only city in existence? No. Of course not. It’s a boastful way the biblical authors used to basically say all the other cities sucked compared to Nineveh. More complicated is that the author didn’t like Nineveh, but was talking shite about Nineveh boasting that it was the best city.
Posted on 6/2/26 at 3:02 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
Aren't you being hypocritical by condemning me for not reading the Bible the way you think I should? Isn't that "arrogance" to not believe the way you do?
Not at all. It isn't hard to look and see that your brand of Christianity and the Islam faith are the only two in the world who believe they have a monopoly on spiritual truth and also that you two groups are largely responsible for all the war around the planet at the same time.
But I digress, once again you are straying from the topic of this thread as you did for 40 consecutive pages participating with SFP and Squirrel over a debate that had exactly frick all to do with the topic of this thread.
Posted on 6/2/26 at 3:03 pm to FooManChoo
Your brain would explode if you read any peer reviewed scholarly material on the historicity of Jesus by Richard Carrier.
Posted on 6/2/26 at 3:12 pm to Squirrelmeister
quote:
Your brain would explode if you read any peer reviewed scholarly material on the historicity of Jesus by Richard Carrier.
That hasn't really been well received by academic scholars has it?
Posted on 6/2/26 at 3:15 pm to Squirrelmeister
At the very least, I think that these verses mark some stage of a transition to monotheism. I agree that it's not blatantly stated but it points towards a movement, imo. Chapter 44
This is what the Lord says—
Israel’s King and Redeemer, the Lord Almighty:
I am the first and I am the last;
apart from me there is no God.
7 Who then is like me? Let him proclaim it.
Let him declare and lay out before me
what has happened since I established my ancient people,
and what is yet to come—
yes, let them foretell what will come.
8 Do not tremble, do not be afraid.
Did I not proclaim this and foretell it long ago?
You are my witnesses. Is there any God besides me?
No, there is no other Rock; I know not one.”
This is what the Lord says—
Israel’s King and Redeemer, the Lord Almighty:
I am the first and I am the last;
apart from me there is no God.
7 Who then is like me? Let him proclaim it.
Let him declare and lay out before me
what has happened since I established my ancient people,
and what is yet to come—
yes, let them foretell what will come.
8 Do not tremble, do not be afraid.
Did I not proclaim this and foretell it long ago?
You are my witnesses. Is there any God besides me?
No, there is no other Rock; I know not one.”
Posted on 6/2/26 at 3:17 pm to AlterEd
quote:Perhaps you could explain it, then. It seems you are criticizing me for saying that what I believe is true and what others believe is false, while telling me that what you believe about the Bible is true and what I believe is false.
Not at all.
quote:I think you're being too reductionist to make this claim, as if simply believing in an exclusive truth claim makes me essentially the same as a Muslim, and is the cause of all wars and violence.
It isn't hard to look and see that your brand of Christianity and the Islam faith are the only two in the world who believe they have a monopoly on spiritual truth and also that you two groups are largely responsible for all the war around the planet at the same time.
You are being irrational here, as all truth claims are exclusive. If they weren't, they wouldn't be truth claims. I suggest you think about that for a minute.
quote:This isn't a digression, at least fundamentally. You are making truth claims and so am I. Because our truth claims are opposed to each other, that spawns additional discussion about how we know what truth is, which is what I'm getting at. You accused me of being arrogant for making a truth claim that has defined Christianity for 2000 years and then inferred that people like me--who believe in objective truth claims--are responsible for all the wars on earth, just like the Muslims.
But I digress, once again you are straying from the topic of this thread as you did for 40 consecutive pages participating with SFP and Squirrel over a debate that had exactly frick all to do with the topic of this thread.
If you don't want to discuss these things, be careful what you say.
Posted on 6/2/26 at 3:19 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
This isn't a digression,
The hell if it's not. You took us down this tangent where you're questioning my faith which has absolutely nothing to do with the topic of this thread.
quote:
If you don't want to discuss these things, be careful what you say.
You asked the fricking question. For fricks sake.
This post was edited on 6/2/26 at 3:20 pm
Posted on 6/2/26 at 3:28 pm to jchamil
quote:
That hasn't really been well received by academic scholars has it?
None of them have had the courage to write a scholarly rebuttal much less one that passes peer review since Carrier’s book was released in 2014. I’m going out on a limb and guessing you haven’t read it or the obsolete paradigm book he just released last year.
Posted on 6/2/26 at 3:29 pm to Squirrelmeister
quote:Richard Carrier
Your brain would explode if you read any peer reviewed scholarly material on the historicity of Jesus by Richard Carrier.
At least we now know the source of your fringe conspiracy theories about Jesus.
Posted on 6/2/26 at 3:32 pm to FooManChoo
I came here to see the aliens and got in the middle of The Crusades.
Posted on 6/2/26 at 3:32 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
At least we now know the source of your fringe conspiracy theories about Jesus.
But... but... but... they are peer reviewed.
Posted on 6/2/26 at 3:34 pm to boogiewoogie1978
quote:
I came here to see the aliens and got in the middle of The Crusades
I've been begging for this thread to remain on topic. They can't let it go.
Posted on 6/2/26 at 3:35 pm to boogiewoogie1978
quote:
I came here to see the aliens
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