re: Question for the socialists/Democrats.

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Most Americans who support policies associated with democratic socialism are not asking the government to abolish private property, eliminate businesses, or take over the entire economy.

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Well maybe not today, but give them 5-10 years when they get what they want and it doesn’t solve all their imaginary problems.

Don’t forget, the 13th amendment was sold as a 1/2% tax on the top 2% of earners.

You are either moving towards liberty and freedom or moving towards tyranny and central power. There is no homeostasis.

I was watching snippets of a video of one of the hundreds if not thousands of gold digger feminists, sitting in her car, talking about how her EX husband, that SHE divorced, should continue to pay for her.
That he should continue to be her ATM machine, since he makes money, and she should live an easy life to do whatever she wants, and have somebody else there to pay for it.

That's this era of socialists, in a quick nutshell.

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Most Americans who support policies associated with democratic socialism are not asking the government to abolish private property, eliminate businesses, or take over the entire economy

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That's exactly what the DSA wants to do and openly admit it. The DSA has factions within it and the communist faction now makes up 51% of the leadership.

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Question for the socialists/Democrats

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Interesting, I don’t normally consider this to be a place for nuanced discussion or reasoned judgement but this seems like a genuine inquiry. Let’s dig a little further

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Is it that you are just lazy and don’t care to work so you want free shite from the government that the rest of us works and pays our taxes

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Damn, fooled again

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I don’t normally consider this to be a place for nuanced discussion or reasoned judgement

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The political conversation around here works more like partisan tweets. Make it concise and use some political buzzwords and catch phrases. Also make it a little provocative to draw attention to the comment.

It's an online pep rally and a place to keep the Trump drumbeat going moreso than a discussion board.

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Most Americans who support policies associated with democratic socialism are not asking the government to abolish private property, eliminate businesses, or take over the entire economy. They usually support a mixed economy: private enterprise and capitalism, combined with public programs such as Social Security, Medicare, public schools, roads, police, fire departments, and unemployment insurance.

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All of this goes against the DSA's stated mission goals.

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Capitalism has produced enormous innovation and prosperity, but completely unregulated capitalism has also produced monopolies, exploitation, financial crises, unsafe workplaces, and severe inequality. Socialism in its fully centralized form has generally performed poorly and often become authoritarian. That is why nearly every successful modern economy uses some combination of markets, regulation, and social programs

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Our "capitalistic" economy is highly regulated so I do not see your point.

It can be argued that true capitalism invites competition to the extent that monopolies cannot happen. The bedrocks of monopolies have been in place, in this country for over a century via government regulations such as patents.

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I would rather debate the actual proposals, their costs, their incentives, and whether they work than insult millions of people and pretend they all want something for nothing. You may still conclude that Bernie Sanders or AOC is wrong, but understanding their supporters requires addressing what they actually believe rather than the most insulting caricature of it

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You would need to be honest in order to do so and judging by just the two points above, you have not been thus far.

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the 13th amendment abolished slavery you're thinking of the 16th amendment created the income tax

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Ty! That’s what I get for going off memory!

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You are starting from the assumption that anyone who supports a social program must be lazy, unwilling to work, or looking for free handouts. That is not an honest way to understand what most of these voters believe.

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We are no longer talking about merely supporting a social program. We're well beyond that.

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Most Americans who support policies associated with democratic socialism are not asking the government to abolish private property, eliminate businesses, or take over the entire economy.

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I can't speak for most Americans, but I can say with certainty that currently elected officials, and current socialist candidates do indeed support those very things.

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They usually support a mixed economy: private enterprise and capitalism, combined with public programs such as Social Security, Medicare, public schools, roads, police, fire departments, and unemployment insurance.

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Cut the crap regarding roads, fire departments, and police. Those are not the issues here, and they never have been. Neither are public schools and social security, for that matter.

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You can disagree with Medicare for All, higher taxes, stronger unions, tuition assistance, or expanded welfare programs without assuming that everyone supporting them is stupid or lazy. Many of them work, pay taxes, and simply believe government should provide a stronger safety net and place more limits on concentrated corporate power.

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Thank you. I disagree with all of those. And a significant of the support for all of them does indeed come from a sense of entitlement and laziness.

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Capitalism has produced enormous innovation and prosperity, but completely unregulated capitalism has also produced monopolies, exploitation, financial crises, unsafe workplaces, and severe inequality. Socialism in its fully centralized form has generally performed poorly and often become authoritarian. That is why nearly every successful modern economy uses some combination of markets, regulation, and social programs.

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You are not describing capitalism. You're describing crony capitalism, which I admit we have a lot of. The solution isn't to finish destroying what's left of capitalism in favor of socialism. The solution is electing people who will drive us back toward a more pure capitalism.

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I would rather debate the actual proposals, their costs, their incentives, and whether they work than insult millions of people and pretend they all want something for nothing. You may still conclude that Bernie Sanders or AOC is wrong, but understanding their supporters requires addressing what they actually believe rather than the most insulting caricature of it

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Then go ahead. Explain to everyone the benefits of abolishing the Senate, abolishing private property, abolishing our borders, abolishing prisons, state ownership of most private industry, govt run grocery stores, etc. And while we're at it, explain the benefits of allowing Muslims to overrun entire cities, because this is all tied together. I admit that I cannot eloquently explain the precise connections, but it seems obvious to me.

And yes, I read your post carefully. You're attempting to sound reasonable. But it's obvious that you have some sort of affinity for many of these socialist ideas. And you're framing this as though it's only minor changes for the overall good. To that I'd say you're naive and you're fighting a battle that doesn't exist. We have well passed the point in which you think we are. We have SEVERAL actual socialists and a few communists already elected, and more running for office. At which point does it become too much? At which point do "normal" democrats become beholden to these people?

I could have written your post for you, classic expected goalpost moving.

You asked for examples in history...if you think those three countries have smarter, more motivated people with better abilities to govern, I disagree.

I am pro America and believe we can do anything we set our mind to...without whimpering "But..but...but"

"OMG Finland spends 2.8% of their GDP on defense and we spend 3.2% how can you even compare the two?" Do you realize how silly of an argument you make.

"But 11% of Finnish people are from outside their country and we have 14% here...see?"

What a loser attitude with no faith in our nation,

Again, this is why I usually leave it to just reading how y'all think, dishonest arguments are more useless and pointless than boring, but ii really is all 3.

I understand you prefer feelings to facts, it's just the way a lot here are.