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re: Question for the "it's the law you must enforce it!" types
Posted on 2/29/20 at 3:17 pm to Revelator
Posted on 2/29/20 at 3:17 pm to Revelator
quote:
It’s legal to execute gays in some countries. Does that make it ok?
No
And that's sort of what this is all about
Is your own personal code of morals more important to you than the law? If so, then why would you support enforcement of trivial laws like marijuana possession? Everyone was fine with states not enforcing sodomy laws because we acknowledge they're stupid and invasive. The same goes for petty drug crimes. Why do we insist that they be enforced even if we know they're stupid?
1
Posted on 2/29/20 at 3:17 pm to Powerman
quote:
The logic is even if you think the law is stupid you must enforce it
Now let's take that and flip it on it's side for a minute. If you have that logic then why would you be upset about someone doing something that you don't like that's actually legal.
You're talking about two different things here.
The first statement is about actually enforcing the law, even if you are against it. The second statement is about being opposed to a law, not about enforcement of that law.
Also, marijuana laws vs. the right to have an abortion are two different types of things. Marijuana laws give the government an affirmative responsibility to combat marijuana crimes (enforce marijuana laws). The right to an abortion recognized by the Supreme Court simply recognizes that women have the right to get an abortion, it does not require the government to take any affirmative steps to do anything, there's not really any law to enforce short of state's not being allowed to make new laws that deprive that right.
This post was edited on 2/29/20 at 3:21 pm
Posted on 2/29/20 at 3:19 pm to Powerman
quote:
why would you be upset about someone doing something that you don't like that's actually legal.
just because it's legal doesn't make it right
Posted on 2/29/20 at 3:29 pm to TrueTiger
quote:
just because it's legal doesn't make it right
So wouldn't the converse be true?
Just because something is illegal it doesn't make it wrong? And if it's not wrong then why do people obsess on enforcing those laws on other people.
Posted on 2/29/20 at 3:30 pm to Roll Tide Ravens
quote:
The first statement is about actually enforcing the law, even if you are against it.
And tell me why any reasonable person would have that position?
Posted on 2/29/20 at 3:36 pm to Powerman
Who's obsessing? Probably not as many as you think. Maybe one or two amongst us, if that. In the meantime, regardless of our lack of interest in relatively minor amounts of marijuana being illegal, there really isn't anything we can do about it unless and until our state government sets a referendum on the matter.
What else do we need to be doing to signal our agreement to legalize marijuana?? I'd be happy to sign a petition.
What else do we need to be doing to signal our agreement to legalize marijuana?? I'd be happy to sign a petition.
Posted on 2/29/20 at 3:37 pm to Powerman
quote:
Is your own personal code of morals more important to you than the law? If so, then why would you support enforcement of trivial laws like marijuana possession? Everyone was fine with states not enforcing sodomy laws because we acknowledge they're stupid and invasive. The same goes for petty drug crimes. Why do we insist that they be enforced even if we know they're stupid?
But not all illegal or legal activities are on the same level. Abortion not only affects the person committing the act, but ends the life of another person. Surely you see this.
This post was edited on 2/29/20 at 4:08 pm
Posted on 2/29/20 at 3:39 pm to Powerman
the question one should ask about a law is: is it a just law?
Ask MLK said:
“A just law is a man made code that squares with the moral law or the law of God. An unjust law is a code that is out of harmony with the moral law.“
Ask MLK said:
“A just law is a man made code that squares with the moral law or the law of God. An unjust law is a code that is out of harmony with the moral law.“
Posted on 2/29/20 at 3:41 pm to TrueTiger
quote:
the question one should ask about a law is: is it a just law?
Correct. And if it isn't a just law why would any sane person demand that it be enforced?
Posted on 2/29/20 at 3:42 pm to davyjones
quote:
Who's obsessing? Probably not as many as you think. Maybe one or two amongst us, if that.
Sure I recognize most here don't fit this category
That's why it's more of a philosophical question about the few that do think that way. WTF is wrong with them?
Posted on 2/29/20 at 3:43 pm to Powerman
quote:
This comes up often with people who are against recreational use for marijuana among other things The logic is even if you think the law is stupid you must enforce it Now let's take that and flip it on it's side for a minute. If you have that logic then why would you be upset about someone doing something that you don't like that's actually legal. Like say..having an abortion. If it's legal why do you care since the law is so fricking important to you?
Trying WAY too hard
Posted on 2/29/20 at 3:46 pm to Powerman
quote:
WTF is wrong with them?
They're squares.
Posted on 2/29/20 at 3:46 pm to Powerman
quote:
And if it isn't a just law why would any sane person demand that it be enforced?
They shouldn't.
Again, to borrow from MLK:
quote:
one has a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws. I would agree with St. Augustine that "an unjust law is no law at all."
Posted on 2/29/20 at 3:46 pm to Powerman
quote:
Just because something is illegal it doesn't make it wrong? And if it's not wrong then why do people obsess on enforcing those laws on other people.
The entire point of being a nation of laws is that the laws trump my personal opinion.
If I don't like a law, I advocate for it's repeal.
If I think something should be illegal, I advocate for a law being passed.
But, in either case, the law is the law. So, there's no actual conflict between, "frick, that SHOULD be illegal" and, "hey, sorry man, I may think it's bullshite, but that's the law"
You see a conflict where there is none.
Posted on 2/29/20 at 3:49 pm to Powerman
Marijuana should be legal.
Abortion should be illegal.
Next question.
Abortion should be illegal.
Next question.
Posted on 2/29/20 at 4:06 pm to Powerman
quote:
And tell me why any reasonable person would have that position?
Those are the laws on the books and if you want the law to be changed we have legislatures to do that. Until the law changes, government law enforcement officers have a duty to enforce those laws, as long as those laws are constitutional. There is no affirmative responsibility that applies to government law enforcement officers to do anything to enforce the right to an abortion. Said right is not a statutory law that calls for enforcement.
The point of my original reply to this thread was that enforcement of marijuana laws is not comparable to the right to an abortion like you suggested.
This post was edited on 2/29/20 at 4:09 pm
Posted on 2/29/20 at 4:07 pm to Powerman
I’m 100% against abortion, and I’m all for disregarding laws that serve no purpose (or only a corrupt purpose), as well as laws that are just stupid.
I wish lawmakers at state and federal levels had to repeal a certain percentage of all new laws created during a legislative session. There are way too many fricking laws.
Not all laws are equal. The law against murder is a pretty important one. That is God’s law, and IMHO, man has no authority to make exceptions to it.
I wish lawmakers at state and federal levels had to repeal a certain percentage of all new laws created during a legislative session. There are way too many fricking laws.
Not all laws are equal. The law against murder is a pretty important one. That is God’s law, and IMHO, man has no authority to make exceptions to it.
Posted on 2/29/20 at 4:18 pm to Powerman
quote:
The logic is even if you think the law is stupid you must enforce it
Equivocation. Legal vs moral vs ethical.
Dismissed.
Posted on 2/29/20 at 4:29 pm to Powerman
quote:
Question for the "it's the law you must enforce it!" types
quote:Not sure exactly where you were going with this, but I upvoted based on need for legal consistency.
Powerman
An 18y/o male can be drafted, but a female can't. #metoo?
18y/o troops can win the CMOH, yet not have a drink to celebrate it.
An 18y/o is mature enough to vote for our local, state, or national leaders. Some Dems claim voter age should even be dropped to 16y/o. Yet 21 is the age proposed for legal cigarette smoking.
Flynn is prosecuted for "lying" in a casual conversation with FBI agents. Meanwhile, McCabe is not prosecuted for lying repeatedly during formal interviews with FBI agents, even when provided with background materials in question.
. . . and the beat goes on.
Posted on 2/29/20 at 4:38 pm to Philippines4LSU
quote:
I wish lawmakers at state and federal levels had to repeal a certain percentage of all new laws
I would like to see laws have a 20-30 year sunset so that successive generations can decide if they want to keep them.
Just like our antique 1916 Tax Code. Just suppose it expired every 30 years unless Congress voted to continue it.
The way it is now, we are governed by a system set in place by people who have been dead 100 years because Congress doesn't have the political will to debate whether that system is still viable.
Sunset provisions would force that examination and stoke contemporary public involvement.
This post was edited on 2/29/20 at 4:46 pm
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