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Poverty does not increase (violent) crime (Video)

Posted on 5/6/17 at 5:15 pm
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
467742 posts
Posted on 5/6/17 at 5:15 pm
CW: Canadian accents

the summary is that relative poverty correlates to increase in crime (esp violent crime). if an area is overly poor without a hierarchical distinction, the crime does not increase dramatically (just as, as we'd expect, areas of abundance and no lower classes see the same lack of crime)

Another link

quote:

The cities with the highest crime rates also have high poverty and unemployment figures [0]. Does this mean that poverty causes violence? To figure this out, it’s best to see if areas with poor economic factors necessarily produce violence. These figures contradict the previous trend. For instance, Idaho is ranked #44 in per capita income, yet also ranked #44 in violent crime


quote:

Returning back to the example of Idaho, it is ranked #8 for the lowest Gini Coefficient [5]. This makes sense of their low violence rates despite the economic factors mentioned earlier.


so Idaho is poor compared to the US at large, but within Idaho, the poverty is spread out without much of an economic status gap. poverty is abundant, but crime is not, because there is a lack of relative poverty

what leads to high Gini Coefficients? Hint...intelligence is not the biggest factor

Differences in self control are a much more correlated variable

quote:

The new research confirms the findings of the famous Stanford marshmallow study, which found that young children who were able resist grabbing a fluffy marshmallow placed in front of them — for 15 long minutes — in order to get two of them later scored an average of 210 points higher on the SAT than kids who couldn’t wait. About one-third of the 4-to-6-year-olds studied were able to withstand the sweet temptation. As in the current research, the kids with more self-control in the marshmallow trial had better life outcomes across the board.


quote:

By adulthood, children in the highest self-control group were significantly less likely to have multiple health problems (11%), compared with kids in the lowest self-control group (27%). They were also much less likely to have addictions to multiple substances (3% vs. 10%, respectively), says Moffitt.

Only 10% of kids with high self-control grew up to have low income — less than $20,000 per year — compared with 32% of their more impulsive peers. Forty-three percent of the least disciplined children had a criminal record by age 32, compared with just 13% of the most conscientious. And as adults, 58% of kids who had low self-control had become a single parent; this was true for only 26% of the high self-control group.


there are also arguments (but i couldn't find something worth adding while making this OP) about cultural and ethnic homogeneity causing lower Gini Coefficients. the people who promote this idea, from what i found in my limited googling, are the people most likely to be your typical "white nationalist" types so it may just be a self fulfilling prophecy and data cherrypicking

Bonus video content: there is an explanation of why polygamous societies are more violent
Posted by Strannix
C.S.A.
Member since Dec 2012
52976 posts
Posted on 5/6/17 at 5:24 pm to
It's genetic, some ethnicities have traits that lead to both a propensity to be impoverished and have low impulse control.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
467742 posts
Posted on 5/6/17 at 5:27 pm to
quote:

It's genetic,

no

BF Skinner and his proxy SFP laughs at this tomfoolery (borderline malarkey)

humans are like all other animals and can be trained with positive and negative reinforcements

there are some biologically defective humans, but they're major outliers and have no place in a discussion about societies at large
Posted by Jorts R Us
Member since Aug 2013
16906 posts
Posted on 5/6/17 at 5:27 pm to
Wow...
Posted by Gusoline
Jacksonville, NC
Member since Dec 2013
10540 posts
Posted on 5/6/17 at 5:33 pm to
all criminals are lazy, not all lazy people are criminals.
Posted by STEVED00
Member since May 2007
23072 posts
Posted on 5/6/17 at 5:39 pm to
Moral of the story

Kids that grow up with mom and dad >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kids that grow up in single parent household
Posted by FooManChoo
Member since Dec 2012
46052 posts
Posted on 5/6/17 at 5:41 pm to
Imagine that. Live according to biblical principles (self control is one of the evidences of the holy spirit) and you have better outcomes in society.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
467742 posts
Posted on 5/6/17 at 5:45 pm to
While having 2 parents is more likely to lead to economic success, it's not really part of this thread's discussion
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
467742 posts
Posted on 5/6/17 at 5:46 pm to
quote:

magine that. Live according to biblical principles (self control is one of the evidences of the holy spirit) and you have better outcomes in society.

Further proof religion is based in past societal trial and error

Self control is not exactly limited to Christianity and actually a bigger part of other religions (like Islam)
Posted by buckeye_vol
Member since Jul 2014
35373 posts
Posted on 5/6/17 at 5:50 pm to
quote:

so Idaho is poor compared to the US at large
It uses per capita income, but does it control for cost of living (that's relative)?
quote:

For instance, Idaho is ranked #44 in per capita income, yet also ranked #44 in violent crime
It's also ranked 44th in population density (20.1 people per square mile). I think that is a control that needs to be included. Density increases opportunity, and the number of potential interactions too.

Finally, did it account for the fact that Uncle Rico and Rex Kwan Do are there protecting the citizens?
This post was edited on 5/6/17 at 5:53 pm
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
467742 posts
Posted on 5/6/17 at 5:51 pm to
In the video, Peterson uses South Dakota
Posted by BOSCEAUX
Where the Down Boys go.
Member since Mar 2008
51545 posts
Posted on 5/6/17 at 5:55 pm to
Idaho isn't exactly a "diverse" population. Also no giant population centers.
Posted by buckeye_vol
Member since Jul 2014
35373 posts
Posted on 5/6/17 at 5:55 pm to
quote:

In the video, Peterson uses South Dakota
I can't watch it now, but I'll check it out later.

I think this is an interesting and complex subject.
Posted by AUstar
Member since Dec 2012
19284 posts
Posted on 5/6/17 at 5:56 pm to
quote:

Hint...intelligence is not the biggest factor


But your quote says:

quote:

The new research confirms the findings of the famous Stanford marshmallow study, which found that young children who were able resist grabbing a fluffy marshmallow placed in front of them — for 15 long minutes — in order to get two of them later scored an average of 210 points higher on the SAT


It seems to me that impulse control is tied to intelligence and they are not independent variables.
Posted by BOSCEAUX
Where the Down Boys go.
Member since Mar 2008
51545 posts
Posted on 5/6/17 at 5:56 pm to
Slo are you trying to say poor black people are more violent than poor whites? Giggles knowingly
Posted by buckeye_vol
Member since Jul 2014
35373 posts
Posted on 5/6/17 at 5:59 pm to
quote:

Differences in self control are a much more correlated variable
This makes sense, and is probably an important contributor to poverty as well, along with a number of negative outcomes, especially since many violent crimes are very impulsive.

I mean there was a classic study of impulsive control with children and marshmallows, and John Stossel did a 20/20 segment on it. Those unable to delay gratification, were more likely to have a number of negative outcomes decades later.
Posted by crazy4lsu
Member since May 2005
39298 posts
Posted on 5/6/17 at 6:00 pm to
quote:

Self control is not exactly limited to Christianity and actually a bigger part of other religions (like Islam)



It would be wonderful to test this against more martial cultures, if they still existed in the same way they did in early human history.

Our best examples might be East Asian and South Asian cultures which are, essentially, heavily repressed. The relatively recent liberalization of the former martial cultures of Japan and Germany would also be interesting basis of comparison.
Posted by buckeye_vol
Member since Jul 2014
35373 posts
Posted on 5/6/17 at 6:02 pm to
quote:

It seems to me that impulse control is tied to intelligence and they are not independent variables.
Impulse control is an "executive function" largely believed to localized in the frontal lobe (pre-frontal cortex) and the primary deficits in ADHD.

It impacts working memory, processing speed, etc. which are broad cognitive abilities that load on G (general intelligence), and moderate other abilities and subsequent performance.
Posted by fr33manator
Baton Rouge
Member since Oct 2010
133644 posts
Posted on 5/6/17 at 6:02 pm to
quote:

Bonus video content: there is an explanation of why polygamous societies are more violent



Because the more numerous a population is and their tendency to breed makes them less of a scarce commodity?
Posted by FooManChoo
Member since Dec 2012
46052 posts
Posted on 5/6/17 at 6:05 pm to
quote:

Further proof religion is based in past societal trial and error
I won't defend "religion" as I believe there is only one correct belief system, but to think that religions are or were formed out of trial and error ignores history.

quote:

Self control is not exactly limited to Christianity and actually a bigger part of other religions (like Islam)
Self control is part of many belief systems. Its not the only reason Christianity is right but self control exists in Christianity because it is right. I don't see how you could claim self control is a bigger part of Islam, though. Islam is one big appeal to the baseness of man, providing justification for exhibiting a lack of self control.
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