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re: Poverty does not increase (violent) crime (Video)

Posted on 5/6/17 at 6:06 pm to
Posted by buckeye_vol
Member since Jul 2014
35379 posts
Posted on 5/6/17 at 6:06 pm to
quote:

Self control is part of many belief systems.
But it's largely innate, although it can obviously be improved with practice.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
475948 posts
Posted on 5/6/17 at 6:08 pm to
I was going to use Asian religions but Islam was too easy
Posted by Samso
nyc
Member since Jun 2013
5068 posts
Posted on 5/6/17 at 6:10 pm to
quote:

While having 2 parents is more likely to lead to economic success, it's not really part of this thread's discussion




I think you missed his point.

Parents = positive/negative reinforcement


This post was edited on 5/6/17 at 6:13 pm
Posted by Revelator
Member since Nov 2008
62072 posts
Posted on 5/6/17 at 6:13 pm to
quote:

I don't see how you could claim self control is a bigger part of Islam, though


Christianity teaches to love your enemy and turn the other cheek. I'm no scholar in Islam, but from what I've read, this type of behavior would be viewed as weakness and they are taught to dominate and subdue enimies.
Posted by crazy4lsu
Member since May 2005
39798 posts
Posted on 5/6/17 at 6:13 pm to
quote:

I don't see how you could claim self control is a bigger part of Islam, though. Islam is one big appeal to the baseness of man, providing justification for exhibiting a lack of self control.



There are all sorts of appeals to self control in Islam, from fasting to praying to eating. The list is fairly exhaustive. I think that is what he means.
Posted by FooManChoo
Member since Dec 2012
46738 posts
Posted on 5/6/17 at 6:14 pm to
quote:

But it's largely innate, although it can obviously be improved with practice
Maybe I'm an outlier here but my kids have to be taught patience and self control otherwise they would be doing whatever they wanted all day long and getting what they want when they want because that is what comes natural to them.

The debate about teaching abstinence to kids/teens always comes back to them not being able to control themselves and doing what they want to do regardless of the consequences.
Posted by AUstar
Member since Dec 2012
19601 posts
Posted on 5/6/17 at 6:15 pm to
quote:

Impulse control is an "executive function" largely believed to localized in the frontal lobe (pre-frontal cortex) and the primary deficits in ADHD.

It impacts working memory, processing speed, etc. which are broad cognitive abilities that load on G (general intelligence), and moderate other abilities and subsequent performance.


Yep. I am sure I could dig up some studies that go into detail about this. I am positive they correlate with one another to a high degree.

However, in fairness, it must be said that ADHD people are not necessarily below average in intelligence. I am ADHD myself and am probably average or better.

ETA: Scratch that. It looks like ADHD children score 9 points lower than non-ADHD children on IQ tests. Here's the first study that popped up on Google Scholar: LINK

Quote from abstract:

quote:

Previous studies show that the symptoms
of attention deficit hyperactivity disorder
(ADHD) and lower intelligence quotient (IQ)
covary in children. We investigated the
aetiology of this association in a large
population-based sample of 5-year-old twins.
The twins were individually assessed on an
IQ test, and data on ADHD symptoms were
obtained from mother interviews and teacher
ratings. Confirming previous studies,
the phenotypic correlation between ADHD
symptom scores and IQ was 0.3 and, in a
categorical analysis, children with a Diagnostic
and Statistical Manual of Mental
Disorders (DSM-IV) ADHD research diagnosis
obtained IQ scores nine points lower, on
average, than comparison children. We show
here that the co-occurrence of ADHD and
lower IQ has genetic origins: 86% of the
association between ADHD symptom scores
and IQ, and 100% of the association between
ADHD diagnosis and IQ, was accounted for
by genetic influences that are shared by
ADHD and IQ.
Some candidate genes for
ADHD could also contribute to variation in
IQ or vice versa.



This study was only done on children. I would be interested to see if the same holds true for adults with ADHD. I suppose I am lucky in that my ADHD doesn't covary with low IQ.
Posted by dawgfan24348
Member since Oct 2011
51733 posts
Posted on 5/6/17 at 6:17 pm to
Yeah living by Christianity rules has never gone wrong. Those witiches were real and den gays deserve to be rehabilitated for their evil ways
Posted by Revelator
Member since Nov 2008
62072 posts
Posted on 5/6/17 at 6:19 pm to
quote:

But it's largely innate, although it can obviously be improved with practi


Not only is self control not inate, we are the complete opposite of being under self control. Just look at a baby or young child throw a tantrum when they don't get what they want. That's the nature of man. Unfortunately, the childish behavior that should be grown out of is being manifested daily in today's college aged students.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
475948 posts
Posted on 5/6/17 at 6:20 pm to
That and the whole "submission" aspect of Islam is all about using the religion to force (self) control. Christianity is more focused on accepting Jesus as your Lord and Savior more than action (or, well, more than any other action)

I really wanted to use Buddhist and/or Confucian ideals but went for a troll attempt with Islam, but it still works
Posted by FooManChoo
Member since Dec 2012
46738 posts
Posted on 5/6/17 at 6:27 pm to
The religion is set up under the guise of self control with rules built into make self control all but unnecessary in many ways. From forcing women to hide their entire bodies to granting permission to kill those who speak negatively against Allah, Muhammed, or the Qur'an. Muhammed had men killed for writing poetry that spoke against him. Hardly a show of self control and discipline.
Posted by buckeye_vol
Member since Jul 2014
35379 posts
Posted on 5/6/17 at 6:29 pm to
quote:



Yep. I am sure I could dig up some studies that go into detail about this. I am positive they correlate with one another to a high degree.

However, in fairness, it must be said that ADHD people are not necessarily below average in intelligence. I am ADHD myself and am probably average or better.
These executive function skills are moderators, necessary but not sufficient, factors of intelligence. They aren't intelligence, in and of themsleves, but they are essential to acquire knowledge and solve problems and then apply it.
quote:

This study was only done on children. I would be interested to see if the same holds true for adults with ADHD. I suppose I am lucky in that my ADHD doesn't covary with low IQ.
Well ADHD isn't really associates with "low IQ," but those executive deficits can inhibit it.
Posted by crazy4lsu
Member since May 2005
39798 posts
Posted on 5/6/17 at 6:30 pm to
That doesn't negate the exhaustive list of rules the religion has. One of the fundamental tenets is about controlling your food intake. It's very much about imposing control, and then using those rules to guide self-control. At least that's the intent. Normatively it is much different.
Posted by FooManChoo
Member since Dec 2012
46738 posts
Posted on 5/6/17 at 6:31 pm to
quote:

Yeah living by Christianity rules has never gone wrong. Those witiches were real and den gays deserve to be rehabilitated for their evil ways
Burning witches and rehabbing gays is not built in to the moral law of God. Those were manmade punishments. I bet next you will throw out the Inquisition as an evidence against what I said.
Posted by buckeye_vol
Member since Jul 2014
35379 posts
Posted on 5/6/17 at 6:32 pm to
quote:

Not only is self control not inate, we are the complete opposite of being under self control.
Well we aren't talking about the same self-control because there is plenty of research to suggest if has a cognitive and neurological basis. I'm talking about it as a psychological construct.
Posted by Strannix
C.S.A.
Member since Dec 2012
53688 posts
Posted on 5/6/17 at 6:34 pm to
quote:

there are some biologically defective humans, but they're major outliers and have no place in a discussion about societies at large


Science denier
Posted by FooManChoo
Member since Dec 2012
46738 posts
Posted on 5/6/17 at 6:37 pm to
quote:

That doesn't negate the exhaustive list of rules the religion has. One of the fundamental tenets is about controlling your food intake. It's very much about imposing control, and then using those rules to guide self-control. At least that's the intent. Normatively it is much different.
If anything the lists they have only shows the farce of the religion. They want you watch what you eat but encourage you to kill infidels who make you angry. Yeah, that's not an evidence of a religion of self control when it is contradictory and arbitrary in its application. Christianity is consistent with its teaching on self control and it does away with shallow displays of holiness that have no moral significance.
Posted by buckeye_vol
Member since Jul 2014
35379 posts
Posted on 5/6/17 at 6:39 pm to
quote:

Maybe I'm an outlier here but my kids have to be taught patience and self control otherwise they would be doing whatever they wanted all day long and getting what they want when they want because that is what comes natural to them.
It's a lot like athletic ability and subsequent athletic skills. Self-control has a cognitive basis which is innate; the skills and behaviors can and need to be taught and maximized. That being said, the innate factors will control the extent to which those can be learned and maximized.
Posted by Mulat
Avalon Bch, FL
Member since Sep 2010
17517 posts
Posted on 5/6/17 at 6:41 pm to
quote:

Kids that grow up with mom and dad >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kids that grow up in single parent household


Really I do not see how you say this, though I understand it is a common comment.

I grew up in a one parent household from age 4. I learned to cook, wash and iron my own clothes, to wash dishes and clean the house, no I did not like it but it has served me well.

Military Flight School
Undergraduate and Masters degrees

I have a long list of friends with two parent family's that are failures and raised failures and are spoiled selfish people.
This post was edited on 5/6/17 at 6:43 pm
Posted by FooManChoo
Member since Dec 2012
46738 posts
Posted on 5/6/17 at 6:50 pm to
Definitely have to disagree with you. We have evidence all around us that our society does not exhibit self control, from drug and alcohol problems to obesity to free sex and porn (and abortion) to credit card debt. People don't want to have self control. They would rather legalize everything, call themselves victims when they experience negative consequences, and look for ways to escape accountability.
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