re: Pope: “You ain’t pro life”.

Imagine being the year 2025 and thinking what the pope says is relevant.

quote:

---

Imagine being the year 2025 and thinking what the pope says is relevant.

---

It really is not relevant. The last time a Pope said something binding on the Church was back in 1950.

So what the Pope says on a daily basis to the world news service is not relevant beyond his personal opinion.

quote:

---

My argument is that you have replaced your own views with the views of the Gospel.

---

You haven't presented an argument for why you are correct, though. In several posts, I've given many Scriptures to show why I think the Bible undoubtedly teaches a moral allowance--if not demand--for the death penalty as a means of justice. I would love for you to engage with my arguments.

quote:

---

The Church's opposition to the notion of a Govt putting prisoners to death is grounded in the lessons of the Gospel.

---

It seems to be based on an interpretation of a singular story in the Scriptures while ignoring other clear passages.

quote:

---

I suppose that one Bible passage that supports the RCC's position is the story of the Adulteress who was condemned to death by stoning under Jewish law. Jesus prevented the stoning with his message of mercy. Jesus did not minister to the woman and then tell the crowd "OK, guys, I've ministered to her. Now stone her to death."

---

If this is the only verse to support the RCC's view, it's a grasp at straws.

In the story, Jesus doesn't even speak about the death penalty as a positive or negative. He responds to a question intended to trap Him into either rejecting Moses or defying Rome by putting the conundrum back on His opponents, using the law of Moses against them. As I explained previously, the Mosaic law demanded that both the man and the woman caught in adultery be stoned, and that the witnesses had to be the first ones to initiate the execution (usually by stoning). Since Jesus' opponents weren't interested in following the law, they only brought the woman with them to Jesus. Jesus' response not only turns the trap around to them (they were in sin for not bringing condemnation to both the woman and the man, and in telling the "witnesses" to cast the first stone, it was obvious that they couldn't do it because of Roman law), but it highlights their hypocrisy, showing their guilt.

The end result is that the woman was saved from being executed, but that wasn't the goal of Jesus' words. He offered forgiveness of sins to her, but He wouldn't have been one to stone her because He was not an eyewitness to her sin, and He didn't come to condemn sinners in a judicial/civil sense.

Not only was the point of this story NOT to be a commentary on the death penalty, but the death penalty is supported by other more clear Scriptures that speak to the right and authority of civil governments to execute people for certain crimes (Ex., Lev., Jn, Acts, and Rom all have passages that testify to this).

quote:

---

You disagree with that interpretation? Fine. If you want to believe that the Bible promotes Government putting prisoners to death, fine with me. My Church disagrees with your Bible interpretation.

---

Yep, she sure does, even though she was perfectly fine with the civil magistrates putting to death thousands of heretics over the prior millennia.

quote:

---

You think Jesus wants our Govt to kill condemned prisoners but others disagree and argue that Jesus does NOT support our Govt killing prisoners.

---

I never said that Jesus "wants" the government to kill condemned prisoners, only that it is consistent with His own character (He will return as King to execute the condemned with the eternal (second) death penalty), and that if the Father commanded such a penalty for Israel, that Jesus would not object to it. The Father and the Son are both God, after all, and share a divine will.

quote:

---

You say that Jesus wants Death. We say that Jesus wants Life.

---

Again, I didn't say that. However, Jesus, as the God-man, is perfectly just, and as King, He judges sin and condemns sinners with spiritual death for lack of repentance and faith in Him. If Jesus is glorified in the everlasting damnation of His enemies, why is it considered not in His character to allow for civil magistrates to execute criminals worthy of such a penalty?

quote:

---

What now? Are you going to argue that Jesus stands for Death by Execution?

---

Yes. He recognized the authority of magistrates to put people to death, as was the case with His brief exchange with Pilate.

As I've already agued in this thread, the testimony of the entire Scriptures supports the proper usage of the death penalty as a just and righteous exercise of the sword of justice by the civil magistrate for the good of society (Rom. 13) and in keeping with God's expression that blood deserves blood (Gen. 9:6).

Instead of trying to win an emotional argument by making me seem like some monster who thinks Jesus is a blood-thirsty tyrant, why don't you go to the Scriptures to see if what I'm saying is true?

quote:

---

seems that the importance of the Pope is a something that changes based on the particular point a Catholic is trying to make. He is either the holy and honorable pontiff and supreme head of the Church, or he's just some dude with his own opinions that can be ignored, depending on the conversation. Weird.

---

How many protestant churches get created because one pastor doesnt like what the other pastor says?

Sheeeet my mom's side of the family is southern baptist and her small little town of Ben lomen has 10 churches on one street

...and guess what, the God of the Bible also killed innocent children.

quote:

---

How many protestant churches get created because one pastor doesnt like what the other pastor says?

---

A lot. Sin is the cause of all division, and I would argue that every Christian has a duty to seek to reform a church before leaving it.

quote:

---

Sheeeet my mom's side of the family is southern baptist and her small little town of Ben lomen has 10 churches on one street

---

I believe it.

The pope can have the moral high ground when priests stop fkn little boys

quote:

---

What about that mega church pastor in Texas that got caught

---

He's in jail. He wasn't shuffled off to another church... it wasn't swept under the rug. He stepped down before they fired him and he's now in jail.

So, the new pope is as much an idiot as the last pope.

quote:

---

Oh yeah. At least you are with the high level protestant churches, you bring a good discussion...even though I dont believe in some of your beliefs, I can at least respect that you aren't southern baptist! or any of the other flavors of non-denominational....or an episcopalian or seven day Adventist (shudder) or Mormon or unitarian or God forbid episcopalian or pentacoastal or those weird Presbyterian churches that like women priests and transsexuals. Or most Methodists.

---

Thanks?