re: Pope Francis permits Priests to bless same sex couples in major Vatican doctrine change

quote:

---

But I do think the Pope is forcing this conversation... for some reason. And it doesn't feel like it's to reaffirm the position. It feels like a softening of perspective. Even though it really isn't. It will be misinterpreted as such. And it's on purpose that's the troubling part.

---

I have concerns about his timing, messaging, and the confusion it prompts among the faithful.

I do not have concerns about the Church continuing its mission and remaining the divinely lead, ordered (read: normal, preferred, chosen, OTF, etc) path to salvation that Jesus founded and left to St. Peter.

I feel called to trot out many of Francis' other quotes every time one of these threads (mass media portrays Francis as changing doctrine) gets started. Please enjoy the below, take comfort in the Church, and strengthen your fellow man's belief in this season of Advent.

Quotes from our allegedly "communist/leftist" Pope:

“There are absolutely no grounds for considering homosexual union to be in any way similar or even remotely analogous to God’s plan for marriage and family.”

“Whoever has an abortion kills.” “It is a human life,” Francis said. “This human life must be respected — this principle is so clear.”

Today, there is a global war out to destroy marriage,” Francis said. “Not with weapons but with ideas ... we have to defend ourselves from ideological colonization.”

"Let's think of the nuclear arms, of the possibility to annihilate in a few instants a very high number of human beings. Let's think also of genetic manipulation, of the manipulation of life, or of the gender theory, that does not recognize the order of creation."

"The family is threatened by growing efforts on the part of some to redefine the very institution of marriage, by relativism, by the culture of the ephemeral, by a lack of openness to life."

Pax Christi.

quote:

---

but can you read the gospels and really conclude that that's something that Jesus, of all people, cares about?

---

Well, Paul thinks its a big deal...

1 Cor 11:27-30

quote:

---

27 Therefore whosoever shall eat this bread, or drink the chalice of the Lord unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and of the blood of the Lord. 28 But let a man prove himself: and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of the chalice. 29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh judgment to himself, not discerning the body of the Lord. 30 Therefore are there many infirm and weak among you, and many sleep.

---

Regarding the OP-- The headline is misreporting what is actually being put forth by Vatican office. Unfortunately with Pope Francis, he will allow such headlines to furment without much clarification.

quote:

---

The Church does not give these weddings a meer "blessing".

---

I know that. My late brother and his then wife eloped young, then later in life got their marriage blessed. It was basically a wedding, without a mass. So I wasn't being dismissive, I was just trying not to have a bunch of run on sentences trying to describe what I could in a couple short ones.

The left-leaning press who wants a modernist Catholic Church and the Anti-Catholic bigots who are so eager to condemn the Catholic Church once again get it wrong

From the US Council of Catholic Bishops.

quote:

---

WASHINGTON - In response to the Declaration “Fiducia supplicans” issued by the Vatican’s Dicastery for the Doctrine of the Faith today, the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB) offered the following statement from its spokesperson, Chieko Noguchi, executive director of public affairs.

“The Declaration issued today by the Vatican’s Dicastery for the Doctrine of the Faith (DDF) articulated a distinction between liturgical (sacramental) blessings, and pastoral blessings, which may be given to persons who desire God’s loving grace in their lives. The Church’s teaching on marriage has not changed, and this declaration affirms that, while also making an effort to accompany people through the imparting of pastoral blessings because each of us needs God’s healing love and mercy in our lives.”

---

USCCB Statement

The Church cannot and will not bless a gay union, but will bless anyone asking for God's mercy and grace.

ETA: OP's link is dead. So much for a "valid" source if X can be considered as such.

quote:

---

can bless a same sex couple outside of a liturgical action, just as anyone would approach a priest for a blessing.

---

Thanks for the clarification and explanation, but, that won't stop the anti-Catholic orgy of bashing the Catholic church and Catholics.

It's pretty much a daily thing around here.

quote:

---

hat does it mean to bless a couple without blessing that couple’s relationship? Millions of words will be expended in the coming months to try to explain this, but I can guarantee that none of them will make sense.

---

The concept doesn’t seem difficult to me. At all.

People spend all day looking for reasons to be offended. Of course they will find them!

quote:

---

if a future Pope walks this back, then a similarly complicated dance will have to be done to reconcile the repudiation of Francis’s teaching with the dogma that the Pope is guided and directed by the Holy Spirit even when making ordinary — not ex cathedra — arguments and policies.

---

This is just blatantly false.

I wouldn't expect Alan Jacobs, an Anglican, to explain the doctrine of Papal infallibility correctly though.

quote:

---

When people argue against Sola Scriptura this is what you get.

---

sola scriptura is false clown.

here get some

quote:
I believe in sola scriptura



which has been debunked. along with sola fide. the bible itself debunks this if you can read. oh wait, you have the wrong bible also huh?

sola fide is false

sola scriptura debunked



you are as bad as a democrat here with lutheran/calvinist hogwash. you have been proven wrong so many times here i have lost count. I guess i should have made you a punch list like i did for democrats on election fraud with links? and happenings? you are a hack.

quote:
not sola ecclesia.



nobody argues church alone. but scripture did say the church is the pillar and bulwark of the truth.

1 Timothy 3:15

your issue is putting scripture, the church and traditions all together like they should be. just like grace, faith and works. The one, holy, catholic and apostolic church gave us the bible in 397 AD when they approved it. Even paul stated follow the traditions I taught you by word of mouth or by letter. That debunks sola scriptura as well.

instead you profess sola scriptura and sola fide. Both are false.

LINK

quote:

---

Did St. Catherine of Siena use such vitriol?

---

St. Catherine of Siena is not the Pope. This Pope is acting in a heretical manner.

Regarding your reference to 'our Protestant Brothers' they have their own problems dealing with the issue of homosexuality as in they've simply waved the white flag and surrendered to the LGBT Agenda, with some exceptions. Which is what Bergoglio is in the process of doing.

But if you want I can send you one of Martin Luther's catchy motto (i.e.Bumper Sticker),like the one that says,"Sin Greatly - Believe Mightily Still".(He and His followers actually thought up these catchy phrases). I might even be coaxed into sending you two of the Bumper Stickers. Please keep one and give the other one to Bergoglio. I suspect he'll like it since IMO he really doesn't believe in the concept of 'mortal' sin. I'll say it - IMO the Protestant belief in a distorted view of 'Justification by Faith Alone' has crept into the Catholic Church. Have you ever heard of a moral decision making process called 'Naturalism'?

Which brings me to ask? Are you completely blind to the eternal dire consequences of dying in the state of 'Mortal Sin'? Because if you do you would understand why I cannot understand why this Pope would even toy with blessing for gays. Homosexuality is both disordered and a grave sin....we Catholics call that a mortal sin. Now repeat after me - Mortal Sin kills the Life of Grace in the Soul. And what is Grace? If you answered 'God's life in us' you answered correctly. So maybe instead of trivializing the blessing of homosexual unions the Pope should do all he can to teach gays about the conditions that constitute mortal sin and the danger it (mortal sin) poses to eternal life. To create the illusion that somehow or at some point in the future homosexuality will be accepted and recognized as good and holy is just wrong. This is what this decision by Bergoglio will do.

After all there is a place the Jews call Gehenna (Hell). God created the place for a reason. It was Saint Lucia dos Santos (one of the Fatima visionaries) who during one of the apparitions of Our Lady of Fatima in 1918 was given a vision of hell. I recall Saint Lucia wrote in her description of the terrible vision that had Our Lady not ended the vision she and her two cousins would have died of terror. I don't want souls to commit mortal sin, because I don't want anybody to go to hell. I want them to avoid sinful acts (including homosexual acts) like the plague. Now as for as Pope Francis culpability in this profoundly wrong decision, why endanger souls by creating the impression that the eternal consequences of homosexuality can be wiped out with a simple blessing?

Remember Martin Luther created this notion of "Justification by Faith Alone" because he believed that man was inherently and hopelessly sinful - he could never change. I believe that notion by Luther was rooted in his own internal guilt stemming from the fractured relationship with his father (but I digress). Therefore, he argued the death of Jesus Christ simply covered over man's sinfulness. Whereas the Catholic Church believes (supported by Biblical text from Jesus himself) that when the penitent confesses his/her sins, is sorry for those sins, completes the assigned penance by Persona Christi (the Priest acting in the person of Christ) and the Priest says the words of absolution.......those sins are wiped out (kaput,nada,gone) Best way I can describe this, it's as if the soul is a new person. The Life of Grace is rejuvenated in the soul and spiritual health returns. I've actually read accounts of people brought back to health after absolution.

My purpose in sharing the exchange between Napoleon Bonaparte and Vatican Secretary of State Ercole Consalvi (8 June 1757 – 24 January 1824) was to point out throughout the history of the Church the problem of Clericalism has stiffled Lay participaton in the Church. Which brings me to ask - are you clergy?

But God Bless you for your misguided effort to lecture me on my obligation towards this Pope. I will say again, and I mean this sincerely, Jorge Mario Bergoglio is neither Catholic or Christian...and I pray for his conversion.

My allegiance is to Jesus Christ Crucified, the Teaching Authority of the Church, the Pope (one who teaches and leads the flock in union with the entire magisterium of the Church) bolstered by Tradition of which, IMO, Jorge Mario Bergoglio knows nothing about. But be assured I will continue to pray for him.

Fair Enough?