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re: Pope Francis permits Priests to bless same sex couples in major Vatican doctrine change
Posted on 12/20/23 at 2:44 pm to Revelator
Posted on 12/20/23 at 2:44 pm to Revelator
quote:
So it’s bad logic to use what the scripture plainly says, but it’s good logic to read into the Bible what’s not said?
You accept the plain meaning only when it fits your preconceived theological beliefs, and twist it to fit your preconceived beliefs when the plain meaning isn't something you believe. So, this statement, ironically, applies to yourself.
For example, John 6. You think he's referring to the bread and body in purely symbolic language.
1
Posted on 12/20/23 at 2:53 pm to Stitches
quote:
mean you have Irenaeus, who learned from Polycarp, who learned from John, stating in the 2nd century that the pillars of orthodoxy are scripture AND tradition, but the surest source of orthodoxy is the church in Rome.
Agree. To be steeped in history is to be Catholic.
When you realize, after reading the early church fathers that (, apostolic succession, infant Baptism, mass, the Eucharist, confession, bishops, priest, deacons, deferring to the bishop of Rome on matters in dispute )were all Present from the beginning, most of it in scripture itself, you either have to become Catholic or you have to perform mental gymnastics to remain Protestant.
But how do I teach algebra to people who can not add or subtract ? Most people , Catholics included , know nothing of history.
They are simply ignorant. Some by choice but most through no fault of their own.
Posted on 12/20/23 at 2:57 pm to Stitches
quote:
You accept the plain meaning only when it fits your preconceived theological beliefs, and twist it to fit your preconceived beliefs when the plain meaning isn't something you believe.
Oh the irony
This post was edited on 12/20/23 at 3:07 pm
Posted on 12/20/23 at 3:00 pm to Revelator
This entire discussion makes plain why there needs to be a final arbiter in disputes involving faith, morality, and theology. Matthew 18 makes this very plain, however, it's impossible to do when you have multiple different denominations doing their own thing and interpreting scripture however they see fit.
Posted on 12/20/23 at 3:02 pm to Revelator
Did you forget about that passage in the New Testament about the evangelist who found a eunuch sitting down and reading the Bible (probably the Old Testament Septuagint)?
The evangelist asked him whether he was understanding the Bible very well?
The eunuch answered something like "How can I understand it when I have nobody to guide my understanding?"
That's what the RCC's Magisterium is for, and that's why a church teaching authority is important.
The evangelist asked him whether he was understanding the Bible very well?
The eunuch answered something like "How can I understand it when I have nobody to guide my understanding?"
That's what the RCC's Magisterium is for, and that's why a church teaching authority is important.
Posted on 12/20/23 at 3:05 pm to bayoubengals88
quote:
Let me ask this. Why the need for all of that?
2 Timothy 2:15
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
Posted on 12/20/23 at 3:14 pm to Champagne
quote:
The eunuch answered something like "How can I understand it when I have nobody to guide my understanding?"
The eunuch didn’t understand the scripture because he had yet to be born again and filled with the Holy Sprit. Man can’t understand scripture apart from the leading of the Holy Sprit, but once the Spirit resides in him, he has that ability.
This post was edited on 12/20/23 at 3:27 pm
Posted on 12/20/23 at 3:27 pm to LSUJuice
quote:
also find it odd that as Christians, we all believe that our Lord and savior was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born to a Virgin, and rose from the dead so that we may have eternal life. Yet... protestants draw the line at those who already have achieved eternal life interceding on our behalf. "Now that's just crazy!"
I guess the one small difference is I believe in the former because they are in the Bible. I do not believe the later because it’s not in the Bible. Really simple.
Posted on 12/20/23 at 3:32 pm to Revelator
quote:
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth
But surely you’re not expecting to discover something new?
Posted on 12/20/23 at 3:34 pm to catholictigerfan
quote:
When he took it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each of the elders held a harp and gold bowls filled with incense, which are the prayers of the holy ones.
Were those prayers prayed to God or prayed to the Elders?
quote:
But again they are phrasing this to make it sound bad. It's like you wanted a request of the president, you could ask him yourself but if you could convince one of his cabniet members or even the First Lady to ask for it, wouldn't it be more likely that he would grant it?
Are we ranked once we get to heaven? You have direct access to the Father thanks to Jesus death on the cross. We don’t need any other intermediaries. The curtain was torn in two.
quote:
Jesus is the unique and ultimate mediator between god the father and man, but that doesn't mean there aren't mediators between Jesus and man.
Maybe, but just not according to the Bible.
quote:
so what do the saints in heaven do?
Isaiah 6
Posted on 12/20/23 at 3:42 pm to bayoubengals88
quote:
But surely you’re not expecting to discover something new?
Actually I am. The word is living and the Holy Sprit can show a person something in the scripture that he hadn’t revealed previously and something he can use in a particular crisis or trial.
Posted on 12/20/23 at 3:46 pm to Revelator
quote:
The eunuch didn’t understand the scripture because he had yet to be born again and filled with the Holy Sprit. Man can’t understand scripture apart from the leading of the Holy Sprit, but once the Spirit resides in him, he has that ability.
It wasn't the Holy Spirit that led the Eunuch to understanding the scroll of Isaiah. It was Philip.
But using your logic, all who are "saved" interpret scripture the same way, as led by the Holy Spirit. Correct?
This post was edited on 12/20/23 at 3:48 pm
Posted on 12/20/23 at 3:49 pm to RebelExpress38
quote:
I guess the one small difference is I believe in the former because they are in the Bible. I do not believe the later because it’s not in the Bible. Really simple.
One question: did Jesus leave us a Bible or did he leave us a church?
Answer : he left us a church. The church gave us the Bible. It’s not the other way around as you seem to think the Bible is the ultimate authority but the Bible LITERALY says the church is the authority .
So if you are correct and the Bible IS the ultimate authority, then listen to what it says and accept the church as the final authority.
Really simple
This post was edited on 12/20/23 at 3:58 pm
Posted on 12/20/23 at 4:04 pm to Revelator
quote:
Actually I am. The word is living and the Holy Sprit can show a person something in the scripture that he hadn’t revealed previously and something he can use in a particular crisis or trial.
That’s personal application.
The number of applications is innumerable.
But the interpreting has been done already.
Posted on 12/20/23 at 4:08 pm to Fun Bunch
I had a priest bless my house. Is that what kind of blessing we’re talking about?
Posted on 12/20/23 at 4:09 pm to TBoy
Yes
Posted on 12/20/23 at 4:14 pm to Revelator
quote:
Actually I am. The word is living and the Holy Sprit can show a person something in the scripture that he hadn’t revealed previously and something he can use in a particular crisis or trial.
I have experienced that many times. I am in my 2nd study of the gospel of John in the past ~5 years and I get new additional understanding from the same words I read previously.
Posted on 12/20/23 at 4:53 pm to Revelator
quote:
The eunuch didn’t understand the scripture because he had yet to be born again and filled with the Holy Sprit. Man can’t understand scripture apart from the leading of the Holy Sprit, but once the Spirit resides in him, he has that ability.
None of what you just said is in that Bible passage. Philip provided a sort of Proto-Teaching Authority to help the eunuch understand. Philip said nothing about him asking the Holy Spirit to teach him what it meant. Philip told him what it meant.
You are just making it up as you go along.
Posted on 12/20/23 at 4:53 pm to Fun Bunch
The Vatican being an expert on Christianity is like saying the US politicians are experts in US democratic republic. All about selfishness. The first to go to hell will be those who cloak themselves in the false garbs of righteousness.
Posted on 12/20/23 at 4:56 pm to Sixafan
Nobody said that the Vatican is the expert on Christianity.
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