re: Northern Ireland Pastor convicted of buffer zone law because he preached the gospel

Jesus caused a scene wherever he went,(safe zones)so they said, then they nailed him to a cross,

For the sake of comparison, that was the left of the day,and it backfired then as it is now it's all a matter of time

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The dude was preaching in a hospital parking lot, he wasnt just trying to get his prayer in, he was trying to cause a scene.

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First of all, nowhere in that story does it say he was in the "parking lot". It says "near a hospital". But regardless of where he was, you just said it: He was preaching, not protesting, not harassing, not blocking an entrance or causing any kind of disturbance.

Do you know what preachers do? They preach where people are. He is a retired pastor, which means he isn't in charge of a congregation anymore, so he obviously wants to spend his free time going to different places to spread the Gospel. Where is the crime in that? Where does this absurd law state that preaching is a violation?

What happened was an arbitrary decision by both the police and the judge to penalize this man for doing what he had the right to do.

You said in another post that we "have to follow the laws". What does that have to do with a man who broke no law, but was instead harassed by rogue police and a judge who, evidently, wanted to make an example out of him? Jesus and His disciples also "caused a scene' by your definition. He even went into the temple and turned over tables because of what He saw was happening. Right is right, no matter who likes it or not. This man was simply preaching,

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You said in another post that we "have to follow the laws". What does that have to do with a man who broke no law, but was instead harassed by rogue police and a judge who, evidently, wanted to make an example out of him

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The judge said he liked the guy. The judge has to enforce the laws.

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Jesus and His disciples also "caused a scene' by your definition.

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So now this guy is Jesus?

If you wanna preach get after it by all means, but trying to force your beliefs/religion on others who are just trying to go to the doctor and get cured is not the way.

Doctors have jobs to do and they should be allowed to work without being preached to.

But Im sure if Mohammad came to your work and started preaching to you you'd be all for it.

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What the frick is a buffer zone

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You're probably required to be a certain distance from particular places for preaching or protesting.

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Where is the crime in that? Where does this absurd law state that preaching is a violation?

What happened was an arbitrary decision by both the police and the judge to penalize this man for doing what he had the right to do.

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Not arbitrary at all, the law is clearly defined.

LINK

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5.—(1) In this section, D means a person who is not a protected person.

(2) It is an offence for D to do an act in a safe access zone with the intent of, or reckless as to whether it has the effect of—

(a)influencing a protected person, whether directly or indirectly,

(b)preventing or impeding access by a protected person, or

(c)causing harassment, alarm or distress to a protected person,

in connection with the protected person attending protected premises for a purpose mentioned in section 3.

(3) It is an offence for D to record a protected person who is in a safe access zone without the consent of that person, with the intent of, or reckless as to whether it has the effect of—

(a)influencing a protected person, whether directly or indirectly,

(b)preventing or impeding access by a protected person, or

(c)causing harassment, alarm or distress to a protected person,

in connection with the protected person attending protected premises for a purpose mentioned in section 3.

(4) An offence under this section is punishable on summary conviction by a fine not exceeding level 2 on the standard scale

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All of those things are against the law within 100m of a facility which fits the following

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2.—(1) In this Act, premises are also protected premises if they satisfy conditions 1, 2 and 3.

(2) Condition 1 is that the premises are—

(a)an HSC hospital,

(b)a clinic provided by an HSC trust,

(c)used to provide primary medical services in accordance with arrangements under the Health and Personal Social Services (Northern Ireland) Order 1972, or

(d)any other premises approved for the purposes of this section by the Department.

(3) Condition 2 is that information, advice or counselling relating to treatment for the termination of pregnancy is provided at the premises.

(4) Condition 3 is that the operator of the premises has given notice to the Department that the operator wishes the premises to be protected premises and that notice has not been withdrawn by the operator.

(5) In this section—

“HSC hospital” means a hospital managed by an HSC trust,“HSC trust” means a Health and Social Care trust established under Article 10 of the Health and Personal Social Services (Northern Ireland) Order 1991.

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Cant film, record, attempt to influence, or harass people within 150 meters of a hospital.

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And absolutely none of that took place in this case, and yet even the message of God’s love for mankind is offensive, but then we already know that to be the case with darkness in this world Christ Himself is their stumbling block. It’s simply that while that has always been the case, it has not always been the case that free speech and religious liberty has been sacrificed to appease those who stumble over His love for mankind.

This is pure agenda driven by those who stand in opposition to Christianity, nothing more nothing less.

Where are all the young pastors supporting this man? Where's the courage in the younger generations?

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but trying to force your beliefs/religion on others who are just trying to go to the doctor and get cured is not the way.

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If this guy was an Imam and he had a prayer rug you and I both know the outcome would be different.

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The judge said he liked the guy. The judge has to enforce the laws.

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He wasn’t enforcing laws. That is what the police do. The judge was interpreting the law and determining whether the law was broken.

He determined that preaching gospel-oriented messages at that location constituted a breach of the law by “conduct[ing] a protest with the intent of, or being reckless as to whether, it had the effect of influencing a protected person whether directly or indirectly, in connection with the protected person attending the premises”.

Apparently the judge thought that a gospel message was an inherent attempt to influence someone from having an abortion, even though the message wasn’t particular to abortion.

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So now this guy is Jesus?

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The person you responded to also said Jesus’ disciples likewise caused a scene, by application. Are you purposely arguing in bad faith and making false implications, or did you misunderstand the statement?

Of course the poster wasn’t saying the Irishman was Jesus.

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If you wanna preach get after it by all means, but trying to force your beliefs/religion on others who are just trying to go to the doctor and get cured is not the way.

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This word “force” is thrown around too loosely. Speech is not force, and it can be both ignored and discarded. Preaching is not forcing beliefs/religion. Perhaps you should consider what forcing beliefs actually looks like.

In addition, when you use language like “force”, you are making a moral judgment. You are saying it is wrong or immoral to preach a message publicly because it is forcing someone to hear it even if they don’t like it. You need to justify why such an action is immoral by providing the standard you are using to make such a judgment.

Also, the message was clearly intended for those seeking to kill their children. I wouldn’t use language like “cured” when those women don’t have a sickness or disease that needs treatment.

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Doctors have jobs to do and they should be allowed to work without being preached to.

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Are those “doctors” performing abortions outside the facility in the open air where they can hear such preaching?

Should there be a zone of silence, where no speech (even unrelated to morality) is allowed near the building, in case a “doctor” might hear it and be distracted, or is that just for “preaching”?

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But Im sure if Mohammad came to your work and started preaching to you you'd be all for it.

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A person can tolerate a message being spoken while also being intolerant of the message, itself. That is what the 1st amendment (though it is absent in the UK) is about. You can speak freely even if what you say is repulsive.

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The US first amendment is subject to "Time, Place, and Manner" guidelines as well.

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It is, but that wasn’t my point, which is the heart of freedom of speech.

My point was that you can tolerate the right to say something while disagreeing with what is being said. You don’t have to be “all for” Mohammed preaching outside your office while tolerating him doing so.