re: Memo to all Christians who are struggling with the decision to vote for Trump

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I'll just leave this right here. Because it confirms to me you havent even been looking for the truth, and have now publicly maligned Trumps faith dozens of times on here

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I've "maligned" his actions and words which do not comport to a profession of faith in Jesus Christ. Kamala Harris claims to be a Christian (Baptist), but it's clear that her words and actions to not comport with such a profession.

I'm not looking for just a "moral" person (atheists can do this because of God's common grace), and I'm not just looking for a person who says they are a Christian (all Democrat Presidents have claimed this), but one who has made a public commitment to Christ AND lives a life consistent with that profession. I've been clear on that from the beginning.

Trump claims to be a Christian yet he has avoided all opportunities to confirm or emphasize that in interviews and speeches with a specific faith-based audience. He talks about "God" a lot but I don't recall a time where he specifically talked about his personal faith in Jesus Christ.

Trump claims to be both anti-abortion and anti-same-sex marriage and yet he has given up on abortion and he hasn't touched same-sex "marriage" at all, to my knowledge. Instead, he gladly embraces the support of the LGBTQ community and appointed the first openly gay person to a cabinet position. His actions do not match his words.

Trump's comments about forgiveness also don't match the Christian view of forgiveness. His response was that he participates in Communion as a type of forgiveness. He said he "feels" cleansed from it, but that's trusting in the sacrament rather than the one the sacrament points to--Jesus Christ. His theology is either way off base, or he simply can't explain it well. Regardless, that statement doesn't tell me that he's trusting in Jesus Christ to forgive him for his sins through a repentant and faithful trust in Him.

Again, I don't know his heart, but when I see what him cuss like a sailor, blaspheme God's name, speak with such pride and arrogance to be labeled a narcissist, and not be upfront about how he is saved by Jesus Christ alone but only talks about Christianity in generalities and platitudes, I don't see evidence that he's anything different than a more conservative Obama or Harris, using religion to pander for votes. I would love to be wrong about that, but his words and actions don't seem to align with him being a Christian except through tradition, perhaps.

So then we're back to a "lesser of two evils" argument, which I'm no longer convinced by.

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Foo, would it help if I admit that I agree with you that Trump is almost certainly going to hell when he dies?

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I don't even like making such statements because I don't know if he's elect of God or not. I can't judge his soul. My point all along is that I can only judge based on fruits, and the fruits aren't there. That doesn't mean I'm an infallible judge and I'm not trying to be. This is about whether or not my conscience will allow me to vote for him based on what I know.

If he is not trusting in Christ alone for his salvation and does not do so before he dies, then when he dies, he will go to hell. I don't know if he's trusting in Christ alone or not and neither will I ever know that so I can't say one way or the other.

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What does that have to do with whether or not he is a vastly better candidate than Kamala Harris?

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From your standpoint, it has nothing to do with that.

I'll say it again: I don't believe the lesser-of-two-evils argument is sufficient for me to be glorifying God in my own voting choices based on what I believe His Word teaches. Essentially it's an argument for pragmatism rather than seeking what is pleasing to God first and foremost.

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You seem to have a very narrow view of what opposition looks like and I don’t agree with it.

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Ok...

the REALITY of this is, somebody is going to be elected. It doesn't matter if it's only 3 votes, the one who gets 2 or more wins, and is granted the power accordingly.

You are being presented with agendas by both sides, that effect you, your neighbor, your family and loved ones. One side supports the further radicalization of society. The other side wants to reel that back in, and promotes a return to traditional values.

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My highest allegiance is to God and His Son, Jesus Christ, not to Trump or the Republican Party

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Good. Vote for the one that respects your position

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Ultimately my vote in the Presidential race is a protest one way or another. I’m actively protesting by voting for neither candidate.

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You're not actively doing anything, you're abstaining. Refusing to vote does not negate the power granted to the winner.

If you choose to not prevent someone who's goals are to actively vilify your way of life from taking office, simply speaking, you're a fool. Waiting until they come directly for you is too late.

You are not at all persuasive, Foo, and I contend that your preaching doesn't belong here on Political Talk. You are a member of a very tiny Protestant sect that has less then 10,000 members in the whole USA, and yet you practically dominate this Political Talk board with your preaching. You are here to preach because you are convinced that your preaching here confirms your belief that you are among the Select predestined for Heaven.

I am not here for Religious reasons, but, you are. I am here for Political reasons and I will correct the record when people slander, slur and lie about the Roman Catholic Church. I would defend ANY institution or person from lies, so, I am not even being partial to my own religion.

You are a hard core Calvinist. Calvin believed in governance by establishing a Theocracy in which there was ONE State Religion by law and everybody had to attend church services of that State Religion by law. What you have explained as your reasons for not voting for Trump sounds to me very much like you would like the USA to be a Theocracy and that because Trump doesn't sound like a guy who WOULD establish your kind of Theocracy, you conclude that you can't vote for him.

The US Constitution specifically prohibits any State Religion being established here. John Calvin's Theocracy in Switzerland that got his arse thrown out of the country because it was so oppressive and impractical is not what we want here.

Any form of governance that smacks of Theocracy is Anti-American, Foo, and from what you have told us about how you want the USA to be governed, you sound a lot like a proponent of Calvinistic Theocracy.

Calvinisic Theocracy is UN- American and Anti- Constitutional. I contend that your ideas regarding policy, politics and governance are Un Constitutional and Anti-American.

I know that you don't think of yourself as Unconstitutional or Un American but some of the ideas you espouse seem that way to me.

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I don't believe we should act according to God's secret will, but rather according to His revealed will.

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So, God has spoken to you and told you not to vote for Trump because he is immoral? ..John 8:7.. You're up, guess it's your turn to throw.

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Jesus taught to love your enemies and do good to them. Your secular humanistic perspective seems to be at odds with that.

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Yeah…

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39“‘See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god beside me; I kill and I make alive; I wound and I heal; and there is none that can deliver out of my hand. 40For I lift up my hand to heaven and swear, As I live forever, 41if I sharpen my flashing sword and my hand takes hold on judgment, I will take vengeance on my adversaries and will repay those who hate me. 42I will make my arrows drunk with blood, and my sword shall devour flesh— with the blood of the slain and the captives, from the long-haired heads of the enemy.’ 43“Rejoice with him, O heavens; bow down to him, all gods, for he avenges the blood of his children and takes vengeance on his adversaries. He repays those who hate him and cleanses his people’s land.”

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But Jesus is totally the same deity as in Deuteronomy 32

Yahweh leads by example

Go ahead and explain how I’m taking Yahweh making his arrows drunk with the blood of his enemies out of context and how it really means to love thy enemies.

I don’t understand how an actual Christian would vote for either candidate.

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Squirrelmeister

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Just a warning, Foo's stance is God can do whatever he wants to his creation and it be considered perfectly moral.

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They should just go to the polls and vote for Cumala because a no voter is a vote for her.. So when the left comes for you they won't ask if you are a dem or rep, they will do what they please to you.

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Yep religious kooks will be the first batch sent to the Democrats’ gulags.