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Message
re: Memo to all Christians who are struggling with the decision to vote for Trump
Posted on 10/18/24 at 12:18 am to Azkiger
Posted on 10/18/24 at 12:18 am to Azkiger
quote:
Do you have such requirements for your mechanic? Chef at a restaurant? Cashier at a grocery store?
Not directed to me but character counts before God in a nation's leaders.
See e.g., Pr. 16:12, "It is an abomination for kings to commit wickedness, For in righteousness a throne is established."
Pr. 29:4, "By justice the king causes the land to stand; But a man of bribes tears it down.
Regarding Trump, as far as I know he's been faithful to his now wife, is courageous and fights like no other for our country, and did the most pro-life think of any president in my lifetime. OTOH, I think he's a pro-life pragmatist, not a pro-lifer by conviction. How much will this come into play in his 2ns term? IDK. But I doubt he'd appoint justices to undo what he's known for from his first term.
1
Posted on 10/18/24 at 12:34 am to Azkiger
quote:No, I don’t. There is a different standard for choosing leaders to rule over me and represent me in government.
Do you have such requirements for your mechanic? Chef at a restaurant? Cashier at a grocery store?
Posted on 10/18/24 at 12:44 am to AlwysATgr
quote:Thank you. I’ll try to listen to those.
I posted a couple of links in an earlier post in this thread where this topic is discussed from several in the Reformed camp (even though I don't think that's a major player in the views expressed).
If you have already listened to them, I'd love to hear your thoughts. If not, I encourage you to do so. One's about 13 minutes and the other right at an hour I think. Blessings.
Posted on 10/18/24 at 1:09 am to Warboo
quote:quote:
What is the alternative if not Trump, for a Christian?
Kamala Harris.
That made me laugh. Yes true Christians believe in abortion and cutting kids dicks off. They also love them some child molestation.
You laugh, but that's exactly the issue- Kamala Harris is the alternative to Donald Trump. It's going to be one of those 2 people, there are no other options. That is the choice.
And like it or not, a vote is against someone, just as much as it's for someone.
It's funny, with all the Never Trump stuff- I think he won in 2016 because it was anyone but Hillary; and I think that will be the case again in 2024.
quote:There's a poster who frequents the Political Talk a lot, who recently announced he won't vote for Trump this year because of his faith. He's going to abstain. His avatar suggests he's in a swing state which infamously swung to Biden in 2020, and where every vote is important.
Who are you speaking to exactly? This board is like an extension of 8chan. Think you’ll get more votes here?
Without being ugly or insulting, it comes across as a bit of an attention whore move. Religion is not political; politics are the governing of your land. Religion is more an OT thing. If you're not going to participate in politics, get off this board and stop acting pious here. If you're not going to try to be part of the solution by voting, then you forfeit your right to complain about political matters. You're allowing decadence, trannies engaging with children, and the undermining of religious values and institutions, because you're not voting against the party that espouses those actions.
Posted on 10/18/24 at 1:27 am to FooManChoo
quote:quote:
Do you have such requirements for your mechanic? Chef at a restaurant? Cashier at a grocery store?
No, I don’t. There is a different standard for choosing leaders to rule over me and represent me in government.
Apparently not, as you are willing to NOT actively oppose Kamala Harris and her party's agenda.
If you choose to sit out, please do NOT come on here and complain about various things occurring. You have the opportunity now to oppose them, and you're not standing and doing that.
Posted on 10/18/24 at 2:56 am to Lynxrufus2012
quote:
They are not understanding they will never again have an opportunity for a two party system if Kamala wins.
Do you realize this same kind of doom and gloom is said before each election? It’s so tiring that I see why so many people don’t bother to vote.
Posted on 10/18/24 at 4:15 am to Bass Tiger
Trump's abortion policy is a surrender for the pro life movement.
Neither Trump nor Kamala will have any impact on major cultural issues because they will mostly be fought at the state level and in the courts.
Trump uses Christianity as a political weapon, though he possesses no actual Christian values and principles.
Whatever happens in the next 4 years will not be an existential event or crisis.
If you take the view that this is a binary choice election, then the choice is easy. But not every election is about the next 4 years.
Conservatism is being replaced by nationalism and populism. Christianity is becoming more secular. Trump and Trumpism is not the cure for what ails us as a culture. The sooner we can return to our Christian and conservative roots, the sooner we can change the culture.
Neither Trump nor Kamala will have any impact on major cultural issues because they will mostly be fought at the state level and in the courts.
Trump uses Christianity as a political weapon, though he possesses no actual Christian values and principles.
Whatever happens in the next 4 years will not be an existential event or crisis.
If you take the view that this is a binary choice election, then the choice is easy. But not every election is about the next 4 years.
Conservatism is being replaced by nationalism and populism. Christianity is becoming more secular. Trump and Trumpism is not the cure for what ails us as a culture. The sooner we can return to our Christian and conservative roots, the sooner we can change the culture.
Posted on 10/18/24 at 7:28 am to FooManChoo
quote:
There is a different standard for choosing leaders to rule over me and represent me in government.
Not really. All that matters is if they can perform their job correctly.
Take Trump's faith out of the picture, can he perform his job well?
Take your mechanics faith out of the picture, can he fix your transmission?
Take your cook's faith out of the picture, can they cook a tasty meal?
Posted on 10/18/24 at 7:31 am to AlwysATgr
quote:
Not directed to me but character counts before God in a nation's leaders.
Foo isn't speaking about character, though. He's speaking about personal beliefs.
Foo has said it's possible for atheists to act moral, though he'll claim they have no objective reason to do.
Foo would never vote for an atheist as President even if they behave morally. He also cares about personal belief.
Posted on 10/18/24 at 7:33 am to Scoob
quote:I am, just not by voting for Trump. I oppose her and her party’s agenda by proclaiming the gospel and speaking against the pillars of the Democrat party as evil. Where there are Republicans I can vote for, I do vote for them. I vote against ballot measures that are wicked in nature. I’m also opposing Democrats by not voting for them.
Apparently not, as you are willing to NOT actively oppose Kamala Harris and her party's agenda.
You seem to have a very narrow view of what opposition looks like and I don’t agree with it.
quote:But I am opposing them, just not in the specific way that you think I should.
If you choose to sit out, please do NOT come on here and complain about various things occurring. You have the opportunity now to oppose them, and you're not standing and doing that.
I’m also opposing the GOP shift away from Christian values. The embracing of LGBTQ issues (aside from some trans issues currently) and the refusal to continue with the abortion fight are enough for me to see that the GOP isn’t interested in my vote as a Christian any longer, just my vote as anti-Democrat.
My highest allegiance is to God and His Son, Jesus Christ, not to Trump or the Republican Party. Ultimately my vote in the Presidential race is a protest one way or another. I’m actively protesting by voting for neither candidate.
Posted on 10/18/24 at 7:39 am to Azkiger
quote:Aside from the fact that you’re attempting to reduce the whole argument down to a pragmatic view of job performance, which I don’t agree with when it comes to our government representatives, I don’t think a President is doing his job well if he doesn’t “kiss the Son” by governing in Christ-honoring ways.
Not really. All that matters is if they can perform their job correctly.
Take Trump's faith out of the picture, can he perform his job well?
Take your mechanics faith out of the picture, can he fix your transmission?
Take your cook's faith out of the picture, can they cook a tasty meal?
Posted on 10/18/24 at 7:40 am to FooManChoo
If Trump wins, I wish there were a way where you'd still live under whatever policies Harris would push through (more crime, inflation, gov regs, etc).
Posted on 10/18/24 at 7:42 am to FooManChoo
quote:
Aside from the fact that you’re attempting to reduce the whole argument down to a pragmatic view of job performance, which I don’t agree with when it comes to our government representatives, I don’t think a President is doing his job well if he doesn’t “kiss the Son” by governing in Christ-honoring ways.
I understand your rationale, it's borderline retarded, but I do understand it.
You want all of the pizza or nothing. S'why I wish if this nation decides half a pizza is better than nothing I wish you specifically would still be left with no pizza.
This post was edited on 10/18/24 at 7:44 am
Posted on 10/18/24 at 7:50 am to MemphisGuy
quote:
If people like Samson, David, Saul and Solomon weren't too flawed for God to use, then who are we to say that Trump is too flawed for God to use and therefore we won't vote for him because he's got too many flaws? Are we suddenly claiming we are better than God? If that makes sense.
What about Kamala?
Posted on 10/18/24 at 7:55 am to Bass Tiger
Anyone that has a family wants them to have opportunities like we did. They may not get those type opportunities with leftists running the show. It would be self- centered and downright evil for me to deny them that opportunity because of moral superiority.
Posted on 10/18/24 at 8:07 am to Bass Tiger
Christians forget that the bible is filled with good people doing bad things and bad people doing good things.
King David - Womanizer
St. Peter - Denied Christ out of weakness
Mary Magdalene- Whore
Matthew - Tax collector.
Jesus is not running for office but there is a clear choice if you want what is best for your country.
King David - Womanizer
St. Peter - Denied Christ out of weakness
Mary Magdalene- Whore
Matthew - Tax collector.
Jesus is not running for office but there is a clear choice if you want what is best for your country.
Posted on 10/18/24 at 9:35 am to Azkiger
quote:Jesus taught to love your enemies and do good to them. Your secular humanistic perspective seems to be at odds with that.
If Trump wins, I wish there were a way where you'd still live under whatever policies Harris would push through (more crime, inflation, gov regs, etc).
Posted on 10/18/24 at 9:41 am to Scoob
quote:
If you choose to sit out, please do NOT come on here and complain about various things occurring. You have the opportunity now to oppose them, and you're not standing and doing that.
Foo has already admitted that he does not grace us here on PT with his presence because he is interested in talking about Politics. Political Talk is for talk about Politics, and yet Foo has admitted that he is here to Preach his religion of Reformed Covenant Presbyterian, Double Predestination, Calvinism and Anti Roman Catholicism.
Foo doesn't technically belong on the PT at all, because he is here to Preach his Religion to us, as his Religion, as he sees it, requires him.
Political Talk is for talk about policy and politics. Preachers who are practicing their craft don't belong here.
Foo is here to Preach, not to discuss politics or policy.
Foo believes that the Earth is roughly 6,000 years old. Foo's own particular brand of Presbyterianism has less than 10,000 congregants in the entire USA and NONE at all in Louisiana, so, if you are an LSU fan who is interested in talking about politics and you want to attend a church of Foo's sect for yourself, you will have to drive to another state to do so.
I say all of this not to attack or disparage Foo. I am here to state that Preachers who are here to practice their trade on PT do not belong here.
I would also like to declare my opinion that every Catholic is obligated by the Catechism to vote for Trump, because he is the lesser of two evils. IMHO Trump's not even evil, but Harris clearly is. IMHO, every Evangelical and Protestant is obligated to vote Trump for the same reason.
Posted on 10/18/24 at 9:43 am to Azkiger
quote:Again, I am not looking for a perfect candidate. I'm just looking for one that I can stand before my God and say that I sought to honor Him in voting for someone who also honors Him, even if imperfectly (as all Christians are imperfect).
I understand your rationale, it's borderline retarded, but I do understand it.
You want all of the pizza or nothing.
I'm not a pragmatist, which I see as the defining characteristic in this discussion. I'm being told that it doesn't matter what I believe or why and it doesn't matter if the candidate is a good person or a creep, so long as they "get the job done" when it comes to pushing (some) conservative policies. As long as they are truly "better" in some regards than the alternative, we should vote for him.
I can't in good conscience vote like that any longer because I believe there is more to my vote than pragmatic outcomes.
quote:And that's the difference between us. Even though I disagree with you, I want nothing but good for you. I want you to receive everlasting life and peace with God through faith in Jesus Christ. I want you to receive the same benefits of a Christian society that I want for myself and my family.
S'why I wish if this nation decides half a pizza is better than nothing I wish you specifically would still be left with no pizza.
Posted on 10/18/24 at 9:46 am to Champagne
Sitting this one out is the wrong thing to do
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