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Message
re: Memo to all Christians who are struggling with the decision to vote for Trump
Posted on 10/17/24 at 10:15 am to Fat Bastard
Posted on 10/17/24 at 10:15 am to Fat Bastard
quote:Very mature of you, thanks.
u are a major cuck and i am putting your arse on the cuck list
quote:I am not basically voting for Kamala. My ballot has an option for Harris and I will not be marking my ballot for her. You and others can keep saying that I'm voting for Harris but that's simply nonsensical, as Harris supporters would look at me and say I'm basically voting for Trump if I don't vote for Harris. If both sides can make the same accusation, then the accusation probably isn't valid (it isn't).
since you are basically voting for kamala
quote:I'm voting for state and local initiatives that have a direct impact on my state and don't violate my conscience. My non-vote is a protest and an active statement about the quality of candidates being put forward. I'm also participating in evangelism and discipleship, including teaching Christians the concepts of a Christian worldview and Christ-centered voting.
by sitting out being a chickenshit coward in not fighting for this country
My activism on this board is also a way that I'm fighting for what is right for this country. Too many Christians continue to pull the lever for the lesser of evils election year after election year (as I once did) because there are no candidates that seek to honor Christ so they just look for the ones that would do the least harm or slow down the progress of evil in the culture the most rather than looking for a candidate that is actively fighting against evil with a Christ-centered concern.
As I said in the other thread about this topic, I could not vote for a militant atheist who constantly blasphemes God's name and mocks Christ even if he were pro-life, anti-open borders, and supportive of the other major conservative-oriented positions. I would hope that you wouldn't think me a coward for not voting for that candidate in such an instance, and yet the principle remains that I have to consider the glory of God above the pragmatic benefits of voting for a candidate that causes unbelievers to mock Christ.
quote:What is right is determined by God, not by man. If I violate my conscience on an issue that isn't commanded by God, I'm sinning, which is definitionally wrong.
and what is right
1
Posted on 10/17/24 at 10:16 am to LB84
quote:
LB84
Hear
Hear
Posted on 10/17/24 at 10:18 am to Bass Tiger
And why would Christians be struggling with voting for Trump?
Posted on 10/17/24 at 10:18 am to Champagne
quote:Why do you have to make this about Protestants vs. Catholics? Neither Protestants nor Catholics are as monolithic as you are making them out to be.
Champagne
Posted on 10/17/24 at 10:20 am to FATBOY TIGER
to all Christians
He's not running for pope
He's not running for pope
Posted on 10/17/24 at 10:21 am to Swampcat
quote:
by
why would Christians be struggling with voting for Trump?
They believe the man is too immoral.
Posted on 10/17/24 at 10:23 am to Bass Tiger
I see you insulted 23 Marxist’s so far. Screw them.
Posted on 10/17/24 at 10:25 am to themunch
quote:
to all Christians
He's not running for pope
Exactly my point. The President is not your faith leader. They are simply there to safeguard your first amendment rights, or at least not run rough shod over them, and one of them is your freedom to speak your mind, and to practice your faith, pretty integral for any Christian.
Furthermore, if you say you’re in favor of protecting life, and not having people’s minds warped against God, then you’re certainly not going to be voting for Kamala and her party. The is full out opposition to scripture. There’s just no two ways about it.
Posted on 10/17/24 at 10:30 am to FooManChoo
I’ve got to admit, I’ve seen you argue on this forum and back up your arguments with scripture, an area I tend not to be as diligent, and I agree with a lot of your arguments. But in this, I’m quite disappointed and have lost some respect in your knowledge of scripture. Christians are called to participate in the government we reside within, as best we can. Even Daniel did that as a captive. We are called to try and best model Gods kingdom on earth, if we have that privilege. Not participating via voting for something as major as the leader of the government is negligent in what a Christian are called to do, and sh!ts on those that gave their lives so we can enjoy such freedoms.
Posted on 10/17/24 at 10:30 am to FooManChoo
There's no reason to make it Protestants vs Catholics, but, there is an explanation WRT why millions of Protestants will not vote in this election - because neither side promotes God's Will. There is no over-arching Protestant spiritual command to vote.
The Catholic who sits this one out is acting in clear contravention of the spiritual guidance and advice of the Pope, which is to vote for the lesser of two evils, but, you must vote. The Catholic Catechism says the same thing - a good Catholic must vote for the side which best reflects Christ's values.
Plus, the wiki article that I cited demonstrates that Protestants have "sat this one out" before, and that this sort of thing is not at all out of character for them, as they search their own hearts and decide according to their own judgment that it is right to "sit this one out".
I'm making a comparison and contrast. I think I am right to vote Trump and you think I'm wrong to do so, because you will "sit this one out" and NOT vote at all. I'm not attacking you by saying that you are wrong. What I'm saying is that you are very wrong on this issue, but, you have your own judgment and historical examples to support you.
The Catholic who sits this one out is acting in clear contravention of the spiritual guidance and advice of the Pope, which is to vote for the lesser of two evils, but, you must vote. The Catholic Catechism says the same thing - a good Catholic must vote for the side which best reflects Christ's values.
Plus, the wiki article that I cited demonstrates that Protestants have "sat this one out" before, and that this sort of thing is not at all out of character for them, as they search their own hearts and decide according to their own judgment that it is right to "sit this one out".
I'm making a comparison and contrast. I think I am right to vote Trump and you think I'm wrong to do so, because you will "sit this one out" and NOT vote at all. I'm not attacking you by saying that you are wrong. What I'm saying is that you are very wrong on this issue, but, you have your own judgment and historical examples to support you.
Posted on 10/17/24 at 10:35 am to Champagne
quote:
I'm not attacking you by saying that you are wrong.
As a fellow Protestant with Foo, I'm flat out saying on this issue, he's wrong. I don't feel as if I'm attacking him, but if he chooses to view it that way, that's fine by me. But he's wrong.
But I'm a Baptist, so what do I know?
This post was edited on 10/17/24 at 10:37 am
Posted on 10/17/24 at 3:15 pm to Padme
quote:I'm sorry to disappoint you in this. I believe my position is founded on Scripture. I'll repost my explanation from the other thread at the bottom if it is helpful. I'm not expecting others to agree with me on this at all, but just know that I have a reason for my position.
I’ve got to admit, I’ve seen you argue on this forum and back up your arguments with scripture, an area I tend not to be as diligent, and I agree with a lot of your arguments. But in this, I’m quite disappointed and have lost some respect in your knowledge of scripture.
quote:Sort of. We are called to submit to the government and to do all things to the glory of God, including voting. I am still participating in voting. I am just more limited in who I can vote for. I still vote on state and local ballot measures and check out candidates' commitments to Christ before voting.
Christians are called to participate in the government we reside within, as best we can.
quote:He did. He called for 3 God-fearing men to be appointed leaders. I also desire that God-fearing men be made leaders.
Even Daniel did that as a captive.
quote:We are supposed to be responsible with the privileges we have, for sure. I think considering the honor of God in these matters is part of our responsibility as Christians, and I think that's the most important consideration, since all that we do should be giving glory to God.
We are called to try and best model Gods kingdom on earth, if we have that privilege. Not participating via voting for something as major as the leader of the government is negligent in what a Christian are called to do, and sh!ts on those that gave their lives so we can enjoy such freedoms.
Here is my justification from the other thread on this topic:
quote:To repeat once more, I don't expect anyone to be convinced by this reasoning, but hopefully you see why I am choosing to only vote for rulers who "kiss the Son", giving honor and glory to God.
1. As the Westminster Shorter Catechism says, "man's chief end is to glorify God and to enjoy Him forever". This is a summary of the Scripture's teaching in places like 1 Cor. 10:31, which says "Whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God." All things includes governing and even voting. Col. 1:16 reiterates: "all things were created through Him and for Him", that is, Jesus Christ.
2. Civil government exists for the glory of God in Jesus Christ. Rom. 13:1-7 teaches us that lawful civil rulers are appointed by God to "bear the sword" and "execute wrath on him who practices evil". The civil ruler is "God's minister" and is under the authority of God Himself, who has placed all rulers under the authority of Jesus Christ (Matt. 28:18), as "King of kings and Lord of lords" and "Ruler over the kings of the earth" (Rev. 1:5; 19:16).
3. Psalm 2:10-12 warned "kings" and "judges of the earth" to "be wise" and "be instructed" to "serve the Lord with fear" and to "kiss the Son, lest He be angry". All kings will have to answer to the Son, Jesus Christ, for how they governed and ruled.
4. In America's government, the people--the voter--has supreme power and that power is exercised through elected representatives. In this sense, the voter is "king" and "judge", with elected representatives exercising that power day-to-day in governance. To that end, the voter is accountable to God for each vote they cast.
5. The Bible provides examples of what His people should look for in terms of leaders: in Exod. 18:21, Moses commands Israel to "select from all the people able men, such as fear God, men of truth, hating covetousness; and place such over them to be rulers". David said, "He who rules over men must be just, ruling in the fear of God" (2 Sam. 23:3). Even in exile, Daniel petitioned the king to appoint three God-fearing believers (Shadrach, Meschach, and Abed-Nego) over the affairs of the province of Babylon (Dan. 2:49). Nehemiah later "gave the charge of Jerusalem to my brother Hanani, and Hananiah the leader of the citadel, for he was a faithful man and feared God more than many". (Neh. 7:2)
6. Following these examples, we see that Christian citizens should select godly leaders who will promote God's glory, honor His Son, and obey His Word. Each citizen will have to answer to God for the votes they cast for the men that will represent them. Those words, policies, and actions will be reflected on the voter, so we should be Christ-centered voters.
7. Being a Christ-centered voter involves at least two things: 1) We need to embrace our moral duty to obey God's Word and subject ourselves to His revealed will in all things, including how we vote; and 2) We need to take God at His word when He says "those who honor Me I will honor, and those who despise Me shall be lightly esteemed" (1 Sam. 2:30). Therefore we need to focus on what is honoring to God above all other considerations when voting, including what seems pragmatically good in our eyes.
8. There are two types of people in this world: enemies of God and sons of God; those who are trusting in Christ by faith and are therefore engrafted into the family of God by adoption, and those who have rejected their creator. There are rulers who "kiss the Son" and those who will be broken and shattered to pieces with God's rod of iron (Ps. 2:9).
Ultimately Christians have to ask some important questions regarding who they vote for and support: are we maintaining loyalty to Christ when we align ourselves with rulers who God will break to pieces? Are we being consistent when we vote for enemies of God and hypocrites that do not honor Christ? If Christ is King of kings and the Father has put all things under His feet (Eph. 1:22), then how can Christians support lesser magistrates under the King ruling in opposition to Him? Christians are not to try to find a ruler like all of the rulers of the nations (1 Sam. 8). That's precisely what Israel did during the time of the judges and God took that as a rejection of Himself. That's essentially what we do when we vote for men who rule according to what they think it is right instead of what God says is right.
I'm not voting for Trump because he is either an enemy of God or he is a hypocrite who brings dishonor to Christ through his profession of faith and entirely unchristian words and actions. His support for LGBTQ+ policies; his lack of desire to continue to fight against the evil of abortion; and ultimately his refusal to align with Christ and the truth of the gospel when he is given multiple opportunities to do so are just some of the reasons why I cannot in good conscience vote for him even if his policies are more beneficial to America, to Christians generally, and to me specifically than those of Harris. My allegiance is to Christ above all and I believe I am dishonoring Him when I align myself with those who do not honor Him. I can't align with those who blaspheme God's name for the sake of pragmatism.
Posted on 10/17/24 at 3:22 pm to FooManChoo
Pricipled as always, Foo.
Posted on 10/17/24 at 3:28 pm to Bass Tiger
I don’t know any Christians who are having trouble voting for Trump over Harris and the democratic policies. Honestly the abortion issue alone should be a hard stop for any Christian period. Never mind all of their failed economic policies and social policies.
Posted on 10/17/24 at 4:14 pm to MemphisGuy
I agree with you. Every Christian is obligated to vote for the lesser of two evils here. Sitting this one out is the wrong thing to do. Any Christian who sits this one out is wrong. Any Christian who votes for Harris is wrong.
Posted on 10/17/24 at 4:19 pm to Bass Tiger
No struggle with this decision at all …
Posted on 10/17/24 at 9:04 pm to Champagne
quote:
he posted a Catholic prayer that prays to an Angel and not Christ
Galatians 4:14
quote:
and though my condition was a trial to you, you did not scorn or despise me, but received me as an angel of God, as Christ Jesus.
1 Thessalonians 4:16
quote:
For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
Hebrews 1:
quote:
4having become as much superior to angels as the name he has inherited is more excellent than theirs. 5For to which of the angels did God ever say, “You are my Son, today I have begotten you”? Or again, “I will be to him a father, and he shall be to me a son”?
It appears Paul and the author of Hebrews believed Jesus was an angel, an archangel, and though he started out equal to all the other angels has become the most highly exalted and supreme angel.
Posted on 10/17/24 at 9:08 pm to MemphisGuy
quote:
If people like Samson, David, Saul and Solomon weren't too flawed for God to use, then who are we to say that Trump is too flawed for God to use and therefore we won't vote for him because he's got too many flaws? Are we suddenly claiming we are better than God?
Something something free will something something.
Posted on 10/17/24 at 9:12 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
I still vote on state and local ballot measures and check out candidates' commitments to Christ before voting.
lol wat
Posted on 10/17/24 at 9:42 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
and check out candidates' commitments to Christ before voting.
I'm almost positive that when you repeat that statement to Jesus himself, hes going to lol at you for pretending to know someones elses commitment to him. That aint your job. In fact, he says if you do that, be prepared for it to bite you in the arse
quote:
Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye
Neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.
Youre about to get rended by the Kamala perverts and deviants, while not accepting that Christ may have sent a billionaire (because no one else would have withstood the attacks) to assist you and your fellow Christians
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