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re: Massive hole reopens in Antarctic sea ice
Posted on 11/20/17 at 3:04 pm to bonhoeffer45
Posted on 11/20/17 at 3:04 pm to bonhoeffer45
quote:At least he isn't quoting John Cook.
Did you decide to stop learning in the 70's and call it a day?
LINK
1
Posted on 11/20/17 at 3:06 pm to Knight of Old
quote:
I think the implication was pretty clear: there have been hyperbolic assertions going back at least to Rachel Carson and the only things they have had in common are their vapidity and an unerring ability to completely miss the target...
Well for starters, the premise he set up is just not borne out by the facts. At no point in the 70's were there more scientific papers published about potential global cooling than warming or that remained neutral. Which is why I posted that link. If he has counter evidence to that, by all means, present it. But two pop culture news articles do not make a consensus.
Crazy thing is, science progresses. And as the trends become more evident over time, collection tools more evolved, means and ways of examination more widespread, and just more science done on the subject, the consensus slowly formed to where we see it today.
Posted on 11/20/17 at 3:09 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
At least he isn't quoting John Cook.
So demoralized from your past forays you are jumping straight into the ad hominem approach I see.
Thanks for the bait, but no thanks NC.
Posted on 11/20/17 at 3:10 pm to bonhoeffer45
quote:I am making an assumption that global warming will blamed for the large hole, yet it was just as large in the 1970's when global cooling was the "theory" of the day.
Did you decide to stop learning in the 70's and call it a day?
Posted on 11/20/17 at 3:10 pm to bonhoeffer45
quote:
bonhoeffer45
What is the answer? I'm not even being sarcastic?
I've not heard what we are to do about this.
"Government needs to do something"?
If THAT is the answer, we are fricked. Because, I think most of Gov is stupid and too partisan to do anything except "tax" something and say words that have no wisdom behind them or resolve.
Posted on 11/20/17 at 3:12 pm to Oddibe
quote:
I am making an assumption that global warming will blamed for the large hole, yet it was just as large in the 1970's when global cooling was the "theory" of the day.
And again, the evidence shows it was not the theory of the day.
Posted on 11/20/17 at 3:14 pm to bonhoeffer45
quote:
Crazy thing is, science progresses. And as the trends become more evident over time, collection tools more evolved, means and ways of examination more widespread, and just more science done on the subject, the consensus slowly formed to where we see it today.
More strawmen, more fallacies. This statement is completely devoid of useful insight into this issue. "science progresses" is not up for debate. Science is not a consensus based activity. The amount of research and research papers on a topic, or the number of hypotheses based on any given premise are absolutely irrelevant.
The biggest gripe I have with you "science" types is your insufferable arrogance and condescending attitudes. It's all meaningless, political and ideological bullshite.
So far, you've pointed out that thermometers are reliable, and that scientists have published more research on climate change, and that there is a slowly developing "consensus". How in the hell are those statements supposed to inspire more confidence than say, another poster who challenges the conclusions and presentation of the data?
Posted on 11/20/17 at 3:14 pm to BlackHelicopterPilot
quote:
What is the answer? I'm not even being sarcastic?
I've not heard what we are to do about this.
I've asked this question many times already. I never get an answer.
Funny that.
Posted on 11/20/17 at 3:14 pm to bonhoeffer45
quote:Which shouldn't be confused for 'settled science' because, as you note:
pop culture news articles do not make a consensus.
quote:
science progresses
quote:and
slowly
quote:may have no relation to 'where we see it' tomorrow.
where we see it today
Instead of deciding all of human history on the basis of a few observations made by folks with limited data points 100 years ago and a hand full of ice cores and Mass Spec readings today, why not let's give it a while and not act like the crazies who said the planet Nibiru was going to end the world yesterday?
Posted on 11/20/17 at 3:16 pm to bonhoeffer45
quote:I'm sorry you feel demoralized
So demoralized from your past forays
quote:i'm not sure you understand what ad hominem means.
you are jumping straight into the ad hominem approach I see
Posted on 11/20/17 at 3:16 pm to Knight of Old
quote:
Which shouldn't be confused for 'settled science' because, as you note:
quote:
science progresses
quote:
slowly
and
quote:
where we see it today
may have no relation to 'where we see it' tomorrow.
Instead of deciding all of human history on the basis of a few observations made by folks with limited data points 100 years ago and a hand full of ice cores and Mass Spec readings today, why not let's give it a while and not act like the crazies who said the planet Nibiru was going to end the world yesterday?
Don't bother. He's an elite scientific mind. You couldn't possibly understand what he knows, peon.
Posted on 11/20/17 at 3:17 pm to GumboPot
Can we plug the hole with California??
Posted on 11/20/17 at 3:17 pm to Centinel
I blame the Stargate there.
Posted on 11/20/17 at 3:19 pm to bonhoeffer45
quote:no you dont
I do have a background that involves heavy statistics, and the numbers are just fine.
quote:and yet in order to show the temperature rise they need to demonstrate they have to massage the numbers to such an extent that a pronounced raw data temperature cycle is turned into a straight line, using completely subjective temperature adjustments many times the amplitude of the signal purportedly being measured, while also plugging modeled data into the measurements for the vast areas of the planet that have no surface temperature measurements (and not surprisingly the modeled data is responsible for some of the areas that show the most temperature rise)
More importantly, the underlying science that drives these changes has been known about since the 1850's. How to measure temperatures even longer.
quote:first, the weathermen in my area can't accurately predict the weather 2 days out. Second, this is a false equivalency as we've heard a billion times, weather is not climate
Though something also tells me you don't feel this way when it comes to The National Weather service issuing you flood and wind advisory warnings for upcoming hurricanes landings in your area? Something tells me you don't label that fake news.
quote:the entire statistical premise for the current temperature rests on the presumption that no one prior to 1978 could accurately measure temperature at the time
Temperature collection and the infrastructure underlying it is one of the most stable and well established constructs in human civilization. Even during WWII when we were at war, adversaries and the underlying weather infrastructure remained cooperative and operational. I have no reason to doubt that the temperature in Denver right now is 68 with little deviation.
This post was edited on 11/20/17 at 3:20 pm
Posted on 11/20/17 at 3:19 pm to BlackHelicopterPilot
quote:
What is the answer? I'm not even being sarcastic?
I've not heard what we are to do about this.
"Government needs to do something"?
If THAT is the answer, we are fricked. Because, I think most of Gov is stupid and too partisan to do anything except "tax" something and say words that have no wisdom behind them or resolve.
Well today you don't need to worry about routine acid rain, 240 gallons of raw sewage daily in the Potomac river, or the rapidly expanding hole in the ozone. So history tells us that collective action can and has worked in the past to mitigate environmental harm humans have caused.
Lots of investment oppurtunity for the already ongoing global transition as well. Just need to be more wise with your investments as a country.
Posted on 11/20/17 at 3:20 pm to GumboPot
all rivers flow into the sea and they are not filled.
Posted on 11/20/17 at 3:21 pm to bonhoeffer45
quote:
Well today you don't need to worry about routine acid rain, 240 gallons of raw sewage daily in the Potomac river, or the rapidly expanding hole in the ozone. So history tells us that collective action can and has worked in the past to mitigate environmental harm humans have caused.
You ignored the first part of his question.
Posted on 11/20/17 at 3:24 pm to Centinel
quote:
You ignored the first part of his question.
He's ignored searching an easily available wealth of resources to answer it for him for this long, despite having the collective knowledge of the world at his finger tips, I'm not here to babysit him and press the buttons for him.
Posted on 11/20/17 at 3:26 pm to bonhoeffer45
quote:
He's ignored searching an easily available wealth of resources to answer it for him for this long, despite having the collective knowledge of the world at his finger tips, I'm not here to babysit him and press the buttons for him.
Nice evasion. He asked YOU what the answer was. Not Google.
I'm also asking YOU what the answer is.
I'll wait.
Posted on 11/20/17 at 3:27 pm to Salt Lick
quote:
all rivers flow into the sea and they are not filled.
and this:
quote:
weather is not climate
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