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re: Like to hear the libertarian reaction to Trump's handling of Iran...
Posted on 1/8/20 at 3:41 pm to Centinel
Posted on 1/8/20 at 3:41 pm to Centinel
quote:
We are talking violation of rights, not shitty fiscal policy. Try to stay on topic.
quote:
Why the hell are we locking people up who have not committed harm against another?
No, we are talking about committing harm. Your words. Your topic. Try to stay on it.
quote:
Again, not a violation of your rights in any way unless they are trespassing on your property.
What about the victims of those crimes? Quite a few of them, right? Are their rights not violated?
quote:
No, it's not. With out the later, the former doesn't matter. So why aren't you focusing on the root cause? Because it's too hard?
Because unless you start by abolishing the democrat party, and suck arse republicans, the root cause isn't too hard, it's literally impossible. I'm dealing with reality, not utopia.
1
Posted on 1/8/20 at 3:42 pm to troyt37
Another thing I hate about libertarians is their tendency to sperg out
Posted on 1/8/20 at 3:43 pm to troyt37
Welfare and empire building will come to an end. It's a system that can't run forever. So should we ignore the problems and wait for them to destroy us or do we phase them out? Libertarians would phase the problems out, Republicans continue to feed the problems. Eventually the bill comes due.
Posted on 1/8/20 at 3:45 pm to troyt37
Libertarians fail to understand that everything in the world isn't pure economics, and that culture is one of those intangibles that don't fit into their economic models.
Free trade is a myth.
Open borders equals communism in its worst form.
Posted on 1/8/20 at 3:45 pm to Wtodd
quote:You clearly know something very close to zero about libertarian philosophy.
.the libertarians are like Dems in they don't have 1 set of ideas/ideals.....they're kind of all over the place and are hellbent on pot being legal.
It is ENTIRELY internally-consistent. It simply LOOKS "all over the place" to YOU, because you cannot fathom looking at the world through any prism other than the Left/Right divide.
It is almost like no one has ever tried to explain the Nolan chart to you, but that cannot be true, because I have done so dozens of times.
You simply choose not to listen and thus to remain ignorant.
This post was edited on 1/8/20 at 5:01 pm
Posted on 1/8/20 at 3:47 pm to upgrayedd
quote:Which would make him a left-libertarian, as compared to the right-libertarians who predominate on this forum.quote:Yeah, for some reason, there has been some ideas thrown out that such things are possible. Not sure where that started.
Well, it can be confusing. Bill Maher claimed that he was a libertarian. I've known people IRL who claimed they were Libertarian/Marxists.
There are both left- and right-libertarians, just like there are both authoritarians and limited-government folks technically on the "Right."
Posted on 1/8/20 at 3:50 pm to upgrayedd
quote:EXACTLY.
I think people around here see that libertarians support ideas from both sides and it drives them up the wall. It's the anti-tribe mentality that usually draws the most ire.
People who are unable to imagine examining the world from any angle other than the Left-Right divide simply cannot conceive that SOME "left" ideas are consistent with libertarian philosophy, JUST as some "right" ideas are so-consistent.
Posted on 1/8/20 at 3:51 pm to AggieHank86
quote:
Which would make him a left-libertarian, as compared to the right-libertarians who predominate on this forum.
There are both left- and right-libertarians, just like there are both authoritarians and limited-government folks technically on the "Right."
I just don't see how you can square libertarianism and socialism
Posted on 1/8/20 at 3:52 pm to Porky
quote:I admit to being much less of an isolationist than most libertarians, but I think Trump has handled the entire situation quite well, so far.quote:Trump has handled the situation very well IMO.
Consider it a place to explain how the Trump (neocon) action wasn't exactly the correct course to take with Iran.
Or, consider it a place to publicly admit that the libertarian sky screaming, waiting on Nancy Pelosi to give her blessing (while more Americans are killed or maimed) was in fact bullshite, and stupid.
But I think you may be confusing the term "libertarian" with the term "liberal" or "progressive". The ideologies are very different.
Unlike many, I do not believe that this little kerfuffle is remotely finished.
Posted on 1/8/20 at 3:54 pm to upgrayedd
quote:You cannot square it with Stalinism or any form of communism or socialism associated with the former Easter Bloc, because they have all been authoritarian. Textbook socialism is decidedly-NOT authoritarian, as it posits that government itself will cease to be necessary.
I just don't see how you can square libertarianism and socialism
Personally, I do not buy the theory, which is one of many reasons that I am right-libertarian.
Posted on 1/8/20 at 3:57 pm to QboveTopSecret
quote:
Open borders equals communism in its worst form.
A cradle-to-grave welfare state and an interventionist foreign policy will get you communism before open borders. The two parties support both of these in one form or another.
Posted on 1/8/20 at 3:57 pm to SlowFlowPro
Must have gotten whacked - wasn’t a bad pic at all although it was easily searchable which is prolly why whacked 
This post was edited on 1/8/20 at 3:58 pm
Posted on 1/8/20 at 3:58 pm to 93and99
quote:Again, you are making no effort whatsoever to actually understand, choosing instead to engage in caricature.
What's weird is claiming to be fiscally conservative but not having a problem with open borders
Few libertarians believe in "open borders" in any literal sense. Most of us believe in the free flow of labor, but that is not REMOTELY the same thing, because most of us also do not believe that government should be paying for any of the things that lead to to get so upset about mobile labor pools (welfare, birthright citizenship, etcetera).
Posted on 1/8/20 at 3:59 pm to QboveTopSecret
quote:
Libertarians fail to understand that everything in the world isn't pure economics, and that culture is one of those intangibles that don't fit into their economic models.
Free trade is a myth.
Open borders equals communism in its worst form.
Nonsense.
Libertarian philosophy is rooted in the concept of self-ownership and property rights, and the principle that it is a violation of your property rights when someone else initiates nonconsensual force against you (aggression).
This is why we believe all transactions should be voluntary.
Closed borders is what resembles communism more, since a central authority denies you your property rights by dictating who is or isn’t allowed on your own property.
Libertarians understand that no one else has the right to dictate who I allow to enter my property.
Posted on 1/8/20 at 4:02 pm to Esquire
quote:The first half of this sentence is not a "libertarian" ideal, but rather a Constitutionalist ideal.
Several of you were having a hissy about going to congress, and Trump getting us into a protracted war with Iran, etc.
quote:The fact that something either "works" or happens to produce an acceptable result is NOT the same as being philosophically-correct. Sometimes compromise is absolutely necessary. Only a mindless ideologue would claim otherwise.
So now it appears that Trump's, and what many of you call the neocon action against Iran, was in fact the absolute correct move
Posted on 1/8/20 at 4:05 pm to Zach
quote:I have laid out the same challenge on this forum for years, in response to every dimwit who asserts that I am not a "real libertarian."
For 20 years when challenged I simply say "Name one position I've taken that is not consistent with libertarianism." If they try, I crush them and they go away
Only once or twice has the poster in question done anything other than run and hide without even responding.
Posted on 1/8/20 at 4:05 pm to TigerWhatIR
quote:
Closed borders is what resembles communism more, since a central authority denies you your property rights by dictating who is or isn’t allowed on your own property.
Libertarians understand that no one else has the right to dictate who I allow to enter my property.
Well, maybe we should just send that 20 billion dollar bill to the democrat and libertarian parties every year, since they understand it so well. They should understand footing the bill too. Maybe they would understand sharing the murder, rape, and burglary charges that the criminal illegals commit too.
Posted on 1/8/20 at 4:09 pm to upgrayedd
quote:
The hate for libertarians and libertarian-leaning people here is weird
The funniest part I bet a lot these trump posters were ”libertarian” During the Obama administration
This post was edited on 1/9/20 at 7:05 am
Posted on 1/8/20 at 4:10 pm to hawkeye007
quote:libertarians tend to call out conservatives for not being SMALL-GOVERNMENT conservatives.
libertarians tend to call out conservatives for not being conservative.
FIFY
Many "conservatives" claim to be the latter, without realizing how many of their views are QUITE authoritarian.
Posted on 1/8/20 at 4:10 pm to Dire Wolf
(no message)
This post was edited on 1/11/21 at 1:53 am
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