re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict.

Looks like a big cud of tobacco to me.

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But to repeat the point of this data, which it seems we need to do, with Soviet control these countries were unable to improve their GDP and life expectancy.

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Shot

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Oh, I don't know, maybe because the three countries in question got their independence from the Soviets in the 1990 - 91 timeframe and last year was the latest full year of data? Just a wild guess.

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Chaser

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Using your superior 'statistical literacy' for a moment, do you see any difference?

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Yeah, the way the data is displayed. Because the numbers are within a couple of years apart from each other

You just discovered that sometimes a shorter term line graph is flatter and its blowing your fricking mind

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I think they should have tried any because *maybe* it would have resulted in peace, despite doubts that it actually would have

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They have tried. Just yesterday, Ukraine's lead negotiator suggested that Zelensky and Putin should meet. Guess what Russia's response was?

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Which is why i specifically said Ukraine should "try to be realistic" about their position. I didn't imply that they hadn't been at those talks. But, like Russia, merely showing up doesn't mean shite

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You realize both sides have intractable positions, right?

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 I think there are some with signifcant power in Ukraine that want the war to continue no matter the cost even if Russia were to offer reasonable demands for a variety of potential reasons

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Possibly, but since Russia hasn't made any reasonable demands in 3 years, it seems like you are exclusively blaming the Ukrainians for a problem that requires two parties.

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But that hasn't been happening thus far.

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Right, despite obvious superiority in manpower, industrial capacity and materiel, Russia hasn't been able to enforce their claims on the battlefield. You realize the last time Russia made demands, they wanted 4 oblasts that they didn’t even completely control. Characterizing Ukraine as singularly at fault here (despite holding the position that Russia might not be negotiating in good-faith) is just not an honest, reasonable position. It takes two parties to make peace and there is one side, Russia, that has continually ensured that there isn't even a 30 day ceasefire. Yet the Ukrainians should still try, despite that, to satisfy some American right-wingers, the attempts of which they would still ignore even when Ukraine is attempting to lead the peace talks. This is not an honest position and you should do better.

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They have tried. Just yesterday, Ukraine's lead negotiator suggested that Zelensky and Putin should meet. Guess what Russia's response was?

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Meeting without realistic demands isn't really trying. I know Putin isn't really trying. I'm also not sure Zelensky is.

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You realize both sides have intractable positions, right?

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Sure

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Possibly, but since Russia hasn't made any reasonable demands in 3 years, it seems like you are exclusively blaming the Ukrainians for a problem that requires two parties.

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I'm not exclusively blaming them, I'm pointing out something that I think about them. I think Russia's role in this is rather obvious and not really debatable. Ukraine's very much is... we are debating it right now.

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Characterizing Ukraine as singularly at fault here (despite holding the position that Russia might not be negotiating in good-faith)

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If I acknowledged the latter, then I'm not really doing the former then, am I?

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Yet the Ukrainians should still try, despite that, to satisfy some American right-wingers, the attempts of which they would still ignore even when Ukraine is attempting to lead the peace talks. This is not an honest position and you should do better.

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I think Ukraine should try with a realistic perspective of their own prospects in a long term conflict with Russia. That means likely giving up more than they would like to. Not as much as Russia is demanding, but probably more than they say they are currently willing to. My position isn't simply "Ukraine isn't trying hard enough for peace", and certainly not that they are responsible for the war continuing. They don't even share responsibility on that, its all on Russia. But in the sense of operating based on the current "conditions on the ground", not pointing fingers and sayiing "he started it!", try for some real solution. Suggesting someone try something different isn't also suggesting they are at fault for it not working.

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Its an age old tactic to say your political opponents have ties to X faction that is an enemy of your country, whether its true or not.

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Ie.. The Russia hoax

Now do a map of the US west/southwest and tell me what percentage consider themselves "ethnic" Americans....or Latinos....it might surprise you.

What constitutes "ethnic" Ukranian, 1/8, 1/4, what exactly?

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What constitutes "ethnic" Ukranian, 1/8, 1/4, what exactly?

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Ukrainians (Ukrainian: ????????, romanized: ukraintsi, pronounced [?kr?'jin???ts???i])[47] are a civic nation[48][49] and an ethnic group native to Ukraine. Their native language is Ukrainian, and the majority adhere to Eastern Orthodoxy. By total population, the Ukrainians form the second-largest Slavic ethnic group after the Russians.[1]

Major ethnic
Ukrainians (77.8%) 2001
Minor ethnic
Russians (17.3%) 2001, Other (4.9%) 2001

Anyone experienced in negotiating knows you begin at the “end” and work towards the middle.

Ukraine can’t make an offer, get no counter offer, and then keep making more offers with Russia not changing their position. That would be stupid.

Besides Ukraine can’t settle without assurances that Russia won’t rebuild their armies and invade again. And you can’t blame them.

Volodymyr Zelenskyy /
@ZelenskyyUa
·
1h
Today, my bill is already in the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine – fulfilling my promise – for justice, for law enforcement and anti-corruption agencies. Full-fledged guarantees of the independence of anti-corruption agencies. Real opportunities to verify, so that any Russian interference is kept out.

Everyone who has access to state secrets, and this includes not only the NABU and SAPO, but also the SBI, the National Police, must undergo lie detector tests. These must be regular checks.

The bill also contains provisions to prevent various abuses. The text of the bill was discussed with partners, law enforcement agencies, and representatives of the NABU and SAPO. There were many proposals from partners to involve European experts – from Britain, Germany, the EU. I instructed government officials to present the bill to partners and to engage all necessary expert capabilities.

And of course, it is important that Ukrainians are responding with such dignity to everything that's happening. Ukraine is a country of people who don't look away. Thank you to everyone who is fighting for our state, who is working for Ukraine. Thank you!

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What I mean to say is that the current conditions on the ground don't suggest Ukraine is losing


It's a stalemate for them at best, and the larger country is almost always at an advantage in a stalemate

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The Soviet Army was falling apart in Afghanistan and that adventure was no longer worth the cost.