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re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict.

Posted on 7/24/25 at 7:22 am to
Posted by doubleb
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2006
42759 posts
Posted on 7/24/25 at 7:22 am to
quote:

According to doubleb's logic it's ok if Ukraine doesn't follow the law to the letter because they have to beat Russia, but they absolutely CANT hold an election because it's against Ukranian law.


DoubleB says nations often break the law in war time. I never said it was OK, but it is understandable.

I’d think Ukraine could hold elections if there was enough political will in their country to break their laws or if they rewrote the laws.
But it would be tough to do given Russia occupies 19% of Ukraine and millions of Ukrainians are no longer in their homes and many have left Ukraine.
Try and do better if you want to quote DoubleB
This post was edited on 7/24/25 at 9:11 am
Posted by Coeur du Tigre
It was just outside of Barstow...
Member since Nov 2008
4630 posts
Posted on 7/24/25 at 7:28 am to
Ukrainian protests today -

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quote:

Today’s rallies in defense of the independence of Ukraine’s anti-corruption institutions in Kyiv.

The funniest part is that Russian Z-fascists are watching it, rejoicing and rubbing their hands, thinking these rallies somehow bring Ukraine closer to collapse and defeat.

While in reality, it’s precisely the fact that Ukraine’s civil society takes to the streets, protests, and keeps kicking its own government in the arse even during wartime -- this is one of the key fundamental reasons why this country broke free from Russian colonial subjugation, is carrying out difficult and painful reforms, reviving its identity and national pride, and has been resisting Russia’s power for twelve years already, including three and a half years of full-scale war.

If not for this, among other things, Ukraine would’ve ceased to exist long ago.

This is what makes Ukraine stronger - not weaker.

Russian fascists have spent years, with the stubbornness of an imbecile, refusing to admit that democratic, active Ukraine is not a servile tsarist Russia -- and that there is an abyss between the two countries, even on the mental level.

And that is what will ultimately bury them.



Posted by AU86
Member since Aug 2009
26257 posts
Posted on 7/24/25 at 7:37 am to
The protest is growing in numbers Cope. The people are going to drag your little corrupt Napoleon dictator out in the street and hang him. They are sick of him, his friends, the corruption and the lies.

His law that he signed so that he could protect his thieving friends has back fired on him.

Z got so arrogant that he thought he was bullet proof. The people are comparing him to Yanukovych.
This post was edited on 7/24/25 at 7:47 am
Posted by cypher
Member since Sep 2014
5740 posts
Posted on 7/24/25 at 7:49 am to
Volodymyr Zelenskyy /
@ZelenskyyUa

I’ve just approved the text of a draft bill that guarantees real strengthening of Ukraine’s law enforcement system, independence of anti-corruption agencies, and reliable protection of the law enforcement system against any Russian influence or interference. The text is well-balanced.

Most importantly, it includes real tools, excludes any Russian ties, and upholds the independence of NABU and SAPO. The draft bill will be submitted to the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine today.

It is important that we are maintaining unity. It is important that we are preserving independence. It is important that we respect the position of all Ukrainians and are grateful to everyone who stands with Ukraine.

6:46 AM · Jul 24, 2025
This post was edited on 7/24/25 at 7:51 am
Posted by Coeur du Tigre
It was just outside of Barstow...
Member since Nov 2008
4630 posts
Posted on 7/24/25 at 7:54 am to
quote:

In Russia, the wholesale price of A-95 gasoline (super) on the exchange has broken the historical record of 2023. Today the price is 76,293 rubles/ton.


quote:

Not sure that reason is shortage. As far as I know, government re-pays domestic producers the gap between export and domestic price since exports is more expensive. Recently government again removed this re-payment. Therefore owners take this money from domestic market.


Again, whether it's a shortage of gasoline or of government supports, the middle class pays.




LINK

Posted by VolSquatch
First Coast
Member since Sep 2023
8426 posts
Posted on 7/24/25 at 8:26 am to
quote:

doubleb


quote:

Doubles says nations often break the law in war time. I never said it was OK, but it is understandable.

I’d think Ukraine could hold elections if there was enough political will in their country to break their laws or if they rewrote the laws.
But it would be tough to do given Russia occupies 19% of Ukraine and millions of Ukrainians are no longer in their homes and many have left Ukraine.
Try and do better if you want to quite DoubleB


Switch accounts next time
Posted by VolSquatch
First Coast
Member since Sep 2023
8426 posts
Posted on 7/24/25 at 8:37 am to
quote:

Z got so arrogant that he thought he was bullet proof. The people are comparing him to Yanukovych.



He refused to realistically negotiate because he thought he could frick off to one of these nice European countries that have treated him like a hero and live in a big estate in the countryside somewhere.no matter what happened to Ukraine.

Now Putin probably wouldn't have negotiated in good faith anyway (because the winning side doesn't have to negotiate much), but it would have been nice for Ukraine to actually try an be realistic about their position and see if they could save lives.
Posted by Coeur du Tigre
It was just outside of Barstow...
Member since Nov 2008
4630 posts
Posted on 7/24/25 at 8:38 am to


quote:

The Russian MFA claims Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania benefited economically from Soviet occupation compared with now when they are "reduced to Europe's economic periphery". The beneficial effects of having Moscow run your economy are obvious to everyone.





quote:

More evidence of the "significant advantage" to Estonians, Latvians, and Lithuanians of Soviet occupation compared with independence:





LINK
Posted by VolSquatch
First Coast
Member since Sep 2023
8426 posts
Posted on 7/24/25 at 8:39 am to
quote:

excludes any Russian ties


Who determines what 'Russian ties' are? Zelensky?

Its an age old tactic to say your political opponents have ties to X faction that is an enemy of your country, whether its true or not. Hell, Putin has done that for decades.

Granted idk if the people in Ukraine are well-read enough to know that. This bill that might effectively change nothing (but hopefully it is legitimate) could be enough to calm the storm for now.
Posted by VolSquatch
First Coast
Member since Sep 2023
8426 posts
Posted on 7/24/25 at 8:46 am to
quote:

GDP


Global GDP has gone up 5x since 1989, so those numbers are roughly in line with the global trend

quote:

Life Expectancy


The life expectancy in 1989 was higher than the global average, and increased in line with the rest of the world's from then until present day. That dip was (obviously) from when their government collapsed and services became harder to access for a time.

Life expectancy during the USSR's time in those countries was a bit higher than the global average then, and they are currently a bit higher than the global average now.

There is PLENTY to criticize Russia and the USSR about, but at least be statistically literate when you do it.
Posted by cypher
Member since Sep 2014
5740 posts
Posted on 7/24/25 at 8:50 am to
terrorism update

Bodies of a family of three recovered from the rubble of a house in Pidlyman, Kharkiv region, after a Russian airstrike


A house after extinguishing a fire, where the bodies of three people were recovered, July 24, 2025. Kharkiv Regional Prosecutor's Office/Telegram



The Russian military launched an airstrike , previously carried out by FAB-250 from the UMPK, on Pidlyman, Borivska community, at around 11:30 p.m. on July 23.
This was reported to the regional prosecutor's office.

"Households were damaged, fires broke out on their territory. The bodies of three people were found under the rubble of the house. A family died: a 57-year-old woman, her 58-year-old husband, and their 36-year-old son," the report says.

Suspilne Kharkiv

Posted by doubleb
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2006
42759 posts
Posted on 7/24/25 at 9:14 am to
I did some quick research,
England WW2….. Held their election in 1935. They delayed their next election until July 1945 when the war was nearly over. A ten year lapse.

How is democracy in England?
Posted by Auburn1968
NYC
Member since Mar 2019
26923 posts
Posted on 7/24/25 at 9:26 am to
quote:

They are fighting to be free of Russia. They aren’t fighting for elections. As long as Russia is attacking them they are the enemy.


Ukraine has suffered badly at the hands of Moscow ever since the Mongols invaded. The animosity has a deep history.
Posted by Auburn1968
NYC
Member since Mar 2019
26923 posts
Posted on 7/24/25 at 9:44 am to
quote:

Ukrainian protests today -


Russians in Ukraine are a minority in every oblast except Crimea, but there are still quite a few.

Posted by AU86
Member since Aug 2009
26257 posts
Posted on 7/24/25 at 10:04 am to
quote:

He refused to realistically negotiate because he thought he could frick off to one of these nice European countries that have treated him like a hero and live in a big estate in the countryside somewhere.no matter what happened to Ukraine.



He serves a purpose for the socialist elites of Europe. Keeping the war going means the US is still tied to the defense of Europe. That strategy seems to have worked.

They will build statues of him in Brussels while the people of Ukraine will build gallows.

Posted by Coeur du Tigre
It was just outside of Barstow...
Member since Nov 2008
4630 posts
Posted on 7/24/25 at 10:13 am to
quote:

Global GDP has gone up 5x since 1989, so those numbers are roughly in line with the global trend

The life expectancy in 1989 was higher than the global average, and increased in line with the rest of the world's from then until present day. That dip was (obviously) from when their government collapsed and services became harder to access for a time.

Life expectancy during the USSR's time in those countries was a bit higher than the global average then, and they are currently a bit higher than the global average now.

There is PLENTY to criticize Russia and the USSR about, but at least be statistically literate when you do it.


You're criticizing my 'statistical literacy' yet you include no linked data? Impressive.

But to repeat the point of this data, which it seems we need to do, with Soviet control these countries were unable to improve their GDP and life expectancy. Once the Soviets left, GDP and life expectancy were allowed to improve significantly. The slopes of the included graphs show this. Normal non-Soviet advance in these two areas have slopes with constant degrees of elevation, not the half-bell curve we see here.
Posted by VolSquatch
First Coast
Member since Sep 2023
8426 posts
Posted on 7/24/25 at 11:17 am to
quote:

You're criticizing my 'statistical literacy' yet you include no linked data? Impressive.



If someone really doesn't believe the stats, its incredibly easy to google "GDP in 1989 compared to present day" and do the same thing for life expectancy.

quote:

But to repeat the point of this data, which it seems we need to do, with Soviet control these countries were unable to improve their GDP and life expectancy.


Ah, really? That is what your post was about? Then why is the GDP chart 1988-2024?

As for the life expectancy data, in all of Europe life expectancy 1960-1990 only went up about 4 years. The line is fairly flat there.

I will help you out with a link here. You clearly don't understand statistics, maybe you don't understand Google either.

LINK

Maybe take the time to think 2 seconds about something you saw on Twitter before blasting it over here. You saw the raw stats of "during the Soviet Union vs today" and thought you had something. When really the thought never even occurred to you to compare it to global or even regional trends.

I know you have a quota to meet, though.
This post was edited on 7/24/25 at 11:19 am
Posted by crazy4lsu
Member since May 2005
39825 posts
Posted on 7/24/25 at 11:32 am to
quote:

Now Putin probably wouldn't have negotiated in good faith anyway (because the winning side doesn't have to negotiate much), but it would have been nice for Ukraine to actually try an be realistic about their position and see if they could save lives.


Your position is that despite Putin's unwillingness to negotiate in good-faith, the Ukrainians should have 'tried anyway' to satisfy some sort of insane standard that you have? That is not a logical position.

Despite your ignorance on the matter, the Ukrainians have participated in every international effort for peace, including talks in Istanbul and negotiations in Saudi Arabia in March of this year. Characterizing the Ukrainians as wanting war while also acknowledging the Russians are not going to negotiate in good faith is not an honest reflection of what is going on. Secondly, Russian demands are intractable, and thus the only avenue for possible peace talks is to gain some advantage on the battlefield to then use as fodder for negotiations.
Posted by Coeur du Tigre
It was just outside of Barstow...
Member since Nov 2008
4630 posts
Posted on 7/24/25 at 11:36 am to
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quote:

A logistical railway hub in Russia that connects key strategic directions - Rostov-on-Don, Voronezh, Volgograd, and Kamensk-Shakhtinsky - has been attacked. This hub, located in Novocherkassk in the Rostov region, is used by the occupiers to transport military equipment, ammunition, and fuel for Putin's terrorist army to the Ukrainian border.
quote:

First Ukraine hit a thermal power plant supplying electricity to southern Russian railways, then a railway bridge & now a southern Russian railway marshalling yard?
quote:

@grok , have we seen this operational pattern of railway strikes from the Ukrainians before?
quote:

Grok: Yes, this sequenced targeting of railway power sources, bridges, and yards echoes prior Ukrainian sabotage patterns. In 2024, ops disrupted Moscow-area rails; June 2025 saw bridge blasts derailing trains in Bryansk/Kursk. July's Novocherkassk strike fits, per Ukrinform and Kyiv Independent reports, aiming to cripple southern logistics.



LINK
Posted by Coeur du Tigre
It was just outside of Barstow...
Member since Nov 2008
4630 posts
Posted on 7/24/25 at 12:00 pm to
quote:

Ah, really? That is what your post was about? Then why is the GDP chart 1988-2024?

Oh, I don't know, maybe because the three countries in question got their independence from the Soviets in the 1990 - 91 timeframe and last year was the latest full year of data? Just a wild guess.

quote:

As for the life expectancy data, in all of Europe life expectancy 1960-1990 only went up about 4 years. The line is fairly flat there.

As it should be in a normal non-Soviet country. But that's not what we're talking about is it? The three Baltic States... remember?
quote:

I will help you out with a link here. You clearly don't understand statistics, maybe you don't understand Google either.


Ok, thanks. From your linked data, graphed to help:




The graph from the original post:



Using your superior 'statistical literacy' for a moment, do you see any difference?

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