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re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict.

Posted on 8/15/25 at 2:32 pm to
Posted by doubleb
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2006
42779 posts
Posted on 8/15/25 at 2:32 pm to
quote:

Eh, we are but its not something we couldn't pull the plug on and be mostly, if not entirely, unaffected by.


We are involved and we are staying involved.

Great countries do great things. Ending wars is a great thing.

We have stayed on our side of the ocean before and did little or nothing. How did that work out?
Posted by CitizenK
BR
Member since Aug 2019
16157 posts
Posted on 8/15/25 at 2:32 pm to
quote:


Trump towering over the midget.


Likely tiny hands and a tiny pee pee too
Posted by VolSquatch
First Coast
Member since Sep 2023
8452 posts
Posted on 8/15/25 at 2:44 pm to
quote:

its not something we couldn't pull the plug on


quote:

We are involved and we are staying involved.



Reading comprehension is good

quote:

We have stayed on our side of the ocean before and did little or nothing. How did that work out?


Well the first time we got involved when we didn't have to, which resulted in the second time when we actually did have to get involved. So maybe not the great example you think it is

Also there aren't any serious movements to become completely isolationist. The options aren't "Help Ukraine, or help no one ever". I'd be more that fine with it if we were talking about France, Britain, Australia, Germany, Poland, etc. You know, countries that are valuable allies who are actually important to us.
Posted by VolSquatch
First Coast
Member since Sep 2023
8452 posts
Posted on 8/15/25 at 2:45 pm to
quote:

The first year they would scare everytime nukes were hinted at. Since then, they know it's a bullcrap bluff for the panty waisted



I would argue that they've known its a bullcrap bluff the entire time, and they've used the Russian "threat" on them to advance political initiatives.
Posted by Leopold
Columbia
Member since Sep 2013
2313 posts
Posted on 8/15/25 at 2:50 pm to
quote:

Eh, we are but its not something we couldn't pull the plug on and be mostly, if not entirely, unaffected by.


No. This is patently false.

The biggest misconception of this entire war is the idea that it only concerns the Russians and the Ukrainians, and possibly the neighboring countries. That is BS.

At its core this war is an attack on the American led world order that the Russians and Chinese despise. They have stated this repeatedly, even believing that this leads to an 'inevitable' war with the west and its effects are more far reaching that people either acknowledge or realize.

This factors into practically every aspect of our lives, from inflation to financial markets, to who we elect as politicians, and on and on and on. And when you consider that a madman has his finger on 6k nuclear missiles pointed primarily at you and me and war is, by its very nature, a destabilizing thing that has a tendency to spread, it's far scarier than people are acknowledging.
Posted by doubleb
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2006
42779 posts
Posted on 8/15/25 at 2:51 pm to
We are involved with the world. We are the super power. We are a great nation, and we aren’t going to stay out of things.

That is obvious.

In the case of Ukraine, every administration since it became sovereign after the fall of the USSR has been involved.

I don’t see that changing.
Posted by VolSquatch
First Coast
Member since Sep 2023
8452 posts
Posted on 8/15/25 at 2:56 pm to
quote:

At its core this war is an attack on the American led world order


"its an attack on something no one can ever prove, disprove, or quantify. Source: Trust me bro"

quote:

a madman with 6k nukes


And financing their enemy in a conflict with seemingly no end makes it less likely that he uses them?
This post was edited on 8/15/25 at 2:59 pm
Posted by VolSquatch
First Coast
Member since Sep 2023
8452 posts
Posted on 8/15/25 at 2:56 pm to
quote:

We are involved with the world. We are the super power. We are a great nation, and we aren’t going to stay out of things.

That is obvious.

In the case of Ukraine, every administration since it became sovereign after the fall of the USSR has been involved.

I don’t see that changing.


Thats not really addressing anything I said, you're just wishcasting your worldview
Posted by CitizenK
BR
Member since Aug 2019
16157 posts
Posted on 8/15/25 at 3:03 pm to
We are most definitely involved with the entire world and mostly definitely intertwined with Europe since at least the Civil War. European money funded expansion of Railroads throughout the US and for mines to be developed. They bought our steel and oil export. We funded economic development in Central and South America along with Caribbean. We sent Marines to protect those economic interests too and quell revolutions and uprisings.

We funded Russia's post Soviet oil/gas modernization and expansion.

Right now our chemical manufacturing has entered what is forecast as a prolonged downturn due lack of orders from overseas. Their orders for 4th quarter sales are down already, some cancelled altogether, some reduced.

The US is the mack daddy of low cost petrochemical production and way Saudi Arabia and Qater have invested heavily in that sector as JV partners with US companies.
Posted by doubleb
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2006
42779 posts
Posted on 8/15/25 at 3:13 pm to
quote:

Thats not really addressing anything I said, you're just wishcasting your worldview


It’s the exact opposite.

My view of the world is reality, your view of the world is wishcadting.

There is no debate now. Trump has made it clear that we will stay involved in Ukraine. You might not like that, but that’s what is happening.

Hopefully he will lead the two countries to a peace deal. That would be a great thing.
Posted by CitizenK
BR
Member since Aug 2019
16157 posts
Posted on 8/15/25 at 3:13 pm to
Additionally, BASF started moving operations to the US 15 years ago from Germany.
Posted by Leopold
Columbia
Member since Sep 2013
2313 posts
Posted on 8/15/25 at 3:28 pm to
quote:

"its an attack on something no one can ever prove, disprove, or quantify. Source: Trust me bro"


We have military bases in at least 80 foreign countries and are the foremost military power in world history, so much so that our own citizenry complains about being the 'worlds police.' We, for good or bad, keep order in this savage world.
Our currency is the primary currency for 11 countries and is openly acknowledged as the worlds reserve currency. Economic order rests on our soldiers.
The Russians and Chinese, our primary geopolitical rivals, openly discuss a 'unipolar' world and openly despise it, yet seem to be helpless to actually challenge it. Europe might actually be able to challenge us but have no interest in doing so since it's been so amazingly good to them.
Our cultures is so dominant people around the world are dumb enough to believe that Americans 'have no culture' while wearing blue jeans and listening to rock music.

Bro - the hardest part of 'proving or disproving' this open fact isn't finding examples, it's where to stop. Our world dominance is so complete people just take it for granted, which is exactly where these problems start.

quote:

And financing their enemy in a conflict with seemingly no end makes it less likely that he uses them?


No. Financing their defeat is, something that is absolutely possible and should have already happened.
This post was edited on 8/15/25 at 3:32 pm
Posted by CitizenK
BR
Member since Aug 2019
16157 posts
Posted on 8/15/25 at 3:38 pm to
I don't count the Marines who are embassy guards as an actual military base, like Ron Paul and his cult following have.
Posted by VolSquatch
First Coast
Member since Sep 2023
8452 posts
Posted on 8/15/25 at 3:41 pm to
quote:

We have military bases in at least 80 foreign countries and are the foremost military power in world history, so much so that our own citizenry complains about being the 'worlds police.' We, for good or bad, keep order in this savage world.


And we've largely solved fewer problems than we've created.

How many bases in Ukraine, BTW?
Posted by VolSquatch
First Coast
Member since Sep 2023
8452 posts
Posted on 8/15/25 at 3:42 pm to
quote:

My view of the world is reality, your view of the world is wishcadting.



You don't even know my worldview, you know how I feel about Ukraine
Posted by VolSquatch
First Coast
Member since Sep 2023
8452 posts
Posted on 8/15/25 at 3:44 pm to
quote:

We are most definitely involved with the entire world


Point to anything I said that would indicate that we aren't, please
Posted by Coeur du Tigre
It was just outside of Barstow...
Member since Nov 2008
4654 posts
Posted on 8/15/25 at 4:12 pm to
quote:

Sechin is extremely interesting to me in that he seems to be the biggest Wild Card among the oligarchs.

Absolutely. Sechin is not really a wild card, he's the entire deck. I'll try to keep this short but if you want to get your head around the extent and practices of the mafia that controls Russia, you start with Sechin. As you read about him, just keep reminding yourself that you are normal and he is clearly a psychopath. So you'll never really understand his thinking or behavior. But you can't resist trying.

Everything in the mafia that is Russia begins with loyalty. Sechin and Putin go way back together. When Putin was first given a significant job in the St. Petersburg Mayor's office in 1991, he assigned Sechin as his Chief of Staff. So they've known each other even before then, possibly meeting when they both came home after the Glasnost / German reunification years.

Sechin was a KGB gun runner in Mozambique in the 1980's. Getting out of that arena in one piece is very significant and those talents would have been attractive to Putin at the time.

They came up the levels of power together every step of the way. The people around them in Russia during this time were of two types - those that excelled in politics and those that excelled in finance. To succeed you must have both but the disconnect and resulting battles over power were the end of many of the ambitious. Notably, Sechin has a very strong and rare understanding of both.

Sechin quickly understood that having more power and money than anyone else is a good way to get killed. You must have all the power and all the money. And how you accomplish this is a lesson that in Russia goes back to Stalin - you identify any potential competitor with intelligence and drive and you then get rid of them. Don't wait until they become dangerous.

Here's an article that illustrates this philosophy in practice. The application of force, judicial and otherwise, all goes through the FSB, which is a total snake pit with multiple 'clans' fighting each other. Yes, there is a 'Sechin clan' among many others. These are the members that are on Sechin's payroll and from whom he expects results. Notice the word 'trust' didn't appear in that last sentence. As long as he weeds out the clever, he doesn't have to worry about trust. They have the muscle, he has the cash, results follow.

The oligarchs being stripped recently are all victims of Sechin. Yes, Putin needs the money for the war desperately now but when the levels of wealth and power start to get closer to Putin's decreasing level, people have to go. The money is important but the threat to Putin's position is as well.

These strippings will continue and like all growth industries, will attract competitors. Soon there will only be a few very big fish with very large security contingents and equally large war chests with which to keep everyone paid. The few really clever ones will keep a low profile, never allowing their behavior or actions to expose themselves to the Stalinesk cull. Thus the Russian police will always know who committed a hit because the bodies of the guilty will show up within a day of the hit.

This will get easier as the war chests of the big fish start to shrink, thus the critical importance of the attacks on the Rosneft refineries and infrastructure. The ancient secret of keeping significant body parts attached in non-democratic societies is to have more payroll money than the other guy. The minute you don't, you won't. Especially when the other guy is Igor Sechin.

Posted by CitizenK
BR
Member since Aug 2019
16157 posts
Posted on 8/15/25 at 4:25 pm to
Sechin likely has pictures of Putin involved in tranny sex
Posted by cypher
Member since Sep 2014
5753 posts
Posted on 8/15/25 at 4:28 pm to
Azov National Guard Corps Encircles Russian Troops After Breakthrough Near Dobropillya

The First Corps of the National Guard of Ukraine “Azov,” with attached units, halted a Russian breakthrough near Dobropillya and encircled part of the salient, trapping Russian assault troops, according to DeepState project analysts.

The corps’ press service said that in the past three days, forces in the Pokrovsk sector stopped the advance and conducted search-and-strike operations that cleared Hruzske, Rubizhne, Novovodyane, Petrivka, Vesele and Zolotyi Kolodyaz.

Ukrainian forces reported Russian losses in the area as 271 killed, 101 wounded and 13 captured.

Equipment losses included one tank, two armored combat vehicles, 37 vehicles and motorcycles, and three artillery pieces.

Militarnyi
Posted by Leopold
Columbia
Member since Sep 2013
2313 posts
Posted on 8/15/25 at 5:24 pm to
quote:

our own citizenry complains about being the 'worlds police


I think that you proved my point, my man.....

quote:

And we've largely solved fewer problems than we've created.

How many bases in Ukraine, BTW?
This post was edited on 8/16/25 at 12:35 am
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