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re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict.
Posted on 8/11/25 at 6:20 pm to LARancher1991
Posted on 8/11/25 at 6:20 pm to LARancher1991
quote:
He literally said in a video address from his office in Kiev that any deal that requires Ukraine to give up any territory will not be accepted. That was 2 days ago. Essentially neither side is going to back down and because of that I don't see things getting any better for Ukraine moving forward.
You're correct that neither side is going to back down. That's true.
Zelenski and the Ukrainians have said multiple times in the past they'd consider letting the Russians have the conquered territory if they had the security guarantees mentioned before and I'd argue they'd go along with it even now if they knew - absolutely knew - that the Russians would abide by it. But, of course, we know that won't happen, the Ukrainians most of all.
So since the Russians refuse to stop the killing and continue to offer up meaningless, pathetic cease fires, Z and his country have taken that option off the table. Now Trump has decided to go back to the Russians and accept re-heated version of 'peace' deals that have already been rejected in the past instead of standing by the dictate that just made - so neither side is going to trust or listen to him, they are just going to use him to try to get what they want. Frankly, the Russians are doing a better job of using him.
But nothing is going to get better for the Ukrainians from any peace deal the Russians have put forth. The killing isn't going to stop, the land grab won't stop, the gaslighting, etc. The Ukraine is just going to have to deal with Putin's greed and Trump's naivety and we are all just going to have to stand by and watch.
Posted on 8/11/25 at 6:21 pm to CitizenK
It looks like Russia broke through and made a deep (15km) penetration. We'll see if it is more than just a recon or fell into a trap
Posted on 8/11/25 at 6:41 pm to Auburn1968
quote:
The only way I could see this happening is if Putin's army is on the brink of collapse or revolt. Wagner comes to mind.
See, I want to believe that - I really, really do.
But the military had their chance to join in when Prigozhin revolted and they just stood by, passively. Not exactly a big win for Putin, but it also shows you they are more interested in surviving than revolting.
That along with the fact that Putin was sure to make an example of Prigozhin means it isn't happening soon. Ever see that old movie 'The Usual Suspects?" How can you shoot the devil in the back? What if you miss?
The Russian military is garbage and it's garbage for a reason: they were kept weak for a generation. Imagine if the Sopranos ran a military - that's what the Russian military would look like. So, you don't have genuine soldiers, sailors, and pilots running it, you have mafia bosses. Apparently, the way you move up in the Russian military isn't whether or not you can command a company, or a frigate, or a fighter wing, it's if you can steal things and ship the money up the chain of command. That's not a recipe for an organized rebellion because an actual military man would be looking to lead a rebellion no matter what it costs him.
The same thing that guarantees Putin's security is also guaranteeing the Russians lose this thing in the most costly, painful way possible - the glut of subservient 'yes men' running the second largest army on the planet, and the worse this war gets for the Russians the further Putin is going to retreat back into his handlers.
Posted on 8/11/25 at 7:33 pm to doubleb
Give Russia all of Luhansk and Donetsk up to the current line of combat, Ukraine pulls out of the small bit of Kursk they still hold. Russia pulls out of the Kharkiv/Sumy regions and all of Zaporizhzhia and Kherson while Russia keeps Crimea. Ukraine is allowed to join the EU but not NATO for 30 years with the caveat that if Russia tries attacking Ukraine again then Ukraine is immediately eligible for NATO acceptance even with Ukraine technically in a war and a protection agreement for 30 years of NATO protection from Russia in the event of an invasion wether they are voted in or not.
Most good deals are when both sides aren't happy. This is that kind of deal. Ukraine will have to give up the majority of the Donbas and Crimea but they get back the southern oblasts and they get a protection promise in writing with a path to NATO down the road. Ukraine is also not limited to the size of their army or who they deal with so they can order brand new Gripen E from Sweden or new F-16 Block 70/72 from South Carolina if Ukraine decides to stay with the aircraft they already know and have more trained pilots and maintenance techs while Ukraine becomes a major exporter of military drones.
Most good deals are when both sides aren't happy. This is that kind of deal. Ukraine will have to give up the majority of the Donbas and Crimea but they get back the southern oblasts and they get a protection promise in writing with a path to NATO down the road. Ukraine is also not limited to the size of their army or who they deal with so they can order brand new Gripen E from Sweden or new F-16 Block 70/72 from South Carolina if Ukraine decides to stay with the aircraft they already know and have more trained pilots and maintenance techs while Ukraine becomes a major exporter of military drones.
Posted on 8/11/25 at 8:10 pm to LSUPilot07
Fine and dandy but it has to pass in the legislature and a national referendum as well
Posted on 8/11/25 at 10:24 pm to LSUPilot07
quote:
Give Russia all of Luhansk and Donetsk up to the current line of combat, Ukraine pulls out of the small bit of Kursk they still hold. Russia pulls out of the Kharkiv/Sumy regions and all of Zaporizhzhia and Kherson while Russia keeps Crimea. Ukraine is allowed to join the EU but not NATO for 30 years with the caveat that if Russia tries attacking Ukraine again then Ukraine is immediately eligible for NATO acceptance even with Ukraine technically in a war and a protection agreement for 30 years of NATO protection from Russia in the event of an invasion wether they are voted in or not.
Putting aside the fact that neither side would bother to entertain this for a second, or that it not only screws the Ukrainians but also sets them up for a massive second invasion by the Russians.....
The Russians would never honor this. Not for five minutes. The next phase of the operation would be planned even before they sat down to formally sign the agreement as 'being eligible' for NATO membership means absolutely nothing.
It's a well meaning attempt, but there's no way in Moscow this gets a look.
Posted on 8/11/25 at 11:23 pm to CitizenK
The constitution will be nullified and a new government formed in whatever rump-state of Ukraine remains (if it does) as a condition of Ukraine's surrender.
All of this could've been avoided but no, a bunch of seniors 8000 miles away tried to flex on the internet instead.
All of this could've been avoided but no, a bunch of seniors 8000 miles away tried to flex on the internet instead.
Posted on 8/12/25 at 12:05 am to Leopold
quote:
But nothing is going to get better for the Ukrainians from any peace deal the Russians have put forth. The killing isn't going to stop, the land grab won't stop, the gaslighting, etc. The Ukraine is just going to have to deal with Putin's greed and Trump's naivety and we are all just going to have to stand by and watch
Ukraine is developing quite an arms industry with lots of innovations being battle tested in the real world.
Posted on 8/12/25 at 1:02 am to LSUPilot07
quote:
Give Russia all of Luhansk and Donetsk up to the current line of combat, Ukraine pulls out of the small bit of Kursk they still hold. Russia pulls out of the Kharkiv/Sumy regions and all of Zaporizhzhia and Kherson while Russia keeps Crimea. Ukraine is allowed to join the EU but not NATO for 30 years with the caveat that if Russia tries attacking Ukraine again then Ukraine is immediately eligible for NATO acceptance even with Ukraine technically in a war and a protection agreement for 30 years of NATO protection from Russia in the event of an invasion wether they are voted in or not.
Most good deals are when both sides aren't happy. This is that kind of deal. Ukraine will have to give up the majority of the Donbas and Crimea but they get back the southern oblasts and they get a protection promise in writing with a path to NATO down the road. Ukraine is also not limited to the size of their army or who they deal with so they can order brand new Gripen E from Sweden or new F-16 Block 70/72 from South Carolina if Ukraine decides to stay with the aircraft they already know and have more trained pilots and maintenance techs while Ukraine becomes a major exporter of military drones.
So, with this precedent, how much of Taiwan and the Japanese chain Islands does China get to keep when they invade it?
Posted on 8/12/25 at 1:51 am to Lee B
Posted on 8/12/25 at 1:53 am to Coeur du Tigre
No reports of a drone attack with this one, so it may have been another case of Russian self-sanctioning.
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If tweet fails to load, click here.Posted on 8/12/25 at 2:11 am to Coeur du Tigre
Thorough article by FT on new construction for weapons manufacture throughout Europe.
Financial Times
Loading Twitter/X Embed...
If tweet fails to load, click here. quote:
Using more than 1,000 radar satellite passes, the FT tracked changes at sites associated with ammunition and missile production, two bottlenecks in the west’s support for Ukraine.
quote:
The scale and spread of the detected work suggests a generational shift in rearmament, moving Europe from just-in-time peacetime production towards building an industrial base for a more sustained war footing.
quote:
Areas marked by changes jumped from 790,000 sq metres in 2020-21 to 2.8mn sq metres in 2024-25, the analysis showed. Photography of these sites confirmed the changes were driven by excavations ahead of works, new buildings, fresh roads being paved and construction.
quote:
The analysis examined 88 sites linked to an EU programme, Act in Support of Ammunition Production (ASAP), which has invested €500mn to tackle specific bottlenecks in the production of ammunition and missiles. Both the Rheinmetall and Roxel sites were supported by ASAP.
Financial Times
This post was edited on 8/12/25 at 5:10 am
Posted on 8/12/25 at 5:32 am to Coeur du Tigre
A second attack on the Shahed drone factory storage in Yelabuga, again at 1600km. Larger plume of smoke this time -
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If tweet fails to load, click here.Posted on 8/12/25 at 6:12 am to CitizenK
Lots of confusion about this Russian breakthrough. Some declare it to be the start of a massive Russian offensive, some have said it's just two thunder runs by sabotage groups of less than 100 men. We'll wait and see.
Loading Twitter/X Embed...
If tweet fails to load, click here.Posted on 8/12/25 at 6:45 am to LSUPilot07
quote:
if Russia tries attacking Ukraine again then Ukraine is immediately eligible for NATO acceptance even with Ukraine technically in a war and a protection agreement for 30 years of NATO protection from Russia in the event of an invasion wether they are voted in or not.
Why not just put them into NATO at this point?
"You don't have to actually contribute, but we will protect you if attacked" is one of the reasons they shouldn't be in NATO in the first place.
This post was edited on 8/12/25 at 6:46 am
Posted on 8/12/25 at 6:52 am to Leopold
quote:
Zelenski and the Ukrainians have said multiple times in the past they'd consider letting the Russians have the conquered territory if they had the security guarantees mentioned before and I'd argue they'd go along with it even now if they knew - absolutely knew - that the Russians would abide by it. But, of course, we know that won't happen, the Ukrainians most of all.
They are accepting terms on condition of a metric they control and only they can know: whether or not they believe Russia will follow through with any agreements.
While I get the sentiment because broken agreements are a that pillar Russia is built on, that also gives Ukrainian leadership an out to never accept peace if they don't want to because there is no concrete goal to hit. With billions of dollars in cash, arms, etc flying around with little accountability in terms of where those go, and the west seemingly willing to fund this war indefinitely, there is a lot of incentive for Ukrainian leadership to not accept anything. Even if the front completely collapses for them, those at the top will likely be whisked away into Poland or some other NATO country.
Posted on 8/12/25 at 6:58 am to VolSquatch
ukraine will never be in NATO, unless the US pulls out of the organization.
For just this reason, they provoked Russia into this and now want NATO to save and protect them.
With all the money they have received, Barney Fife could have finished by now, what the heck did they do with all the money?
Ask the average American, will you support ukraine by a 100 charge to your tax return....you would get a realistic answer, an overwhelming no.
That little snot was instrumental in trying to get a US president impeached, he has stolen billions from US taxpayers, and has destroyed his country all for personal wealth and fame, time to end this disaster.
For just this reason, they provoked Russia into this and now want NATO to save and protect them.
With all the money they have received, Barney Fife could have finished by now, what the heck did they do with all the money?
Ask the average American, will you support ukraine by a 100 charge to your tax return....you would get a realistic answer, an overwhelming no.
That little snot was instrumental in trying to get a US president impeached, he has stolen billions from US taxpayers, and has destroyed his country all for personal wealth and fame, time to end this disaster.
Posted on 8/12/25 at 6:59 am to Lee B
quote:
So, with this precedent, how much of Taiwan and the Japanese chain Islands does China get to keep when they invade it?
I don't think we would do anything meaningful to stop China, but I do think t our response to Russia has made China think twice a bit on how they want to handle Taiwan.
China seems more content to play the long game than Russia. Like funding some militant group in Taiwan and having them overthrow the government and join China or something. Or even putting their actual troops in country to run an op posing as such.
Posted on 8/12/25 at 8:06 am to VolSquatch
quote:
Why not just put them into NATO at this point?
There are a number of hurdles they have to clear first. Russia was unwilling to clear them so didn't progress from being a Partner with NATO like Finland and Switzerland have been for decades. Instead, Russia withdrew from being a partner
Posted on 8/12/25 at 8:09 am to CitizenK
quote:
There are a number of hurdles they have to clear first. Russia was unwilling to clear them so didn't progress from being a Partner with NATO like Finland and Switzerland have been for decades. Instead, Russia withdrew from being a partner
Oh I don't want them in NATO at all under any circumstances. I'm saying based on Pilot's comment, you're effectively making them one anyway without the drawback of having to contribute.
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