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Posted on 4/6/21 at 5:27 pm to ChineseBandit58
quote:
Didn't the toxicology report say otherwise?
No autopsy says he overdosed. The drug use obviously played a part in his death.
People are seizing on a couple of statements and wresting them from context. There is a wide variability in what constitutes a fatal dose of fentanyl for a non-user to a habitual user. Several health professionals on here have been pretty adamant that his death doesn’t match up with the symptoms of an overdose. Nor does the timeline.
Posted on 4/6/21 at 5:31 pm to SOSFAN
quote:
So he was dead right by the procedure manual and Floyds death is due to his own actions but lets lock him up so justice can be served. Fentanyl, crystal meth, covid 19, heart disease with blockage, sickle cell and mix all that together with drug induced panic and blood pressure shooting sky high and there is your killer. So is Chauvin a dick? I don't know but he doesn't deserve to go to prison because he might be.
If reckless endangerment is the way it ultimately goes then I doubt he spends any time in prison.
Posted on 4/6/21 at 5:33 pm to supatigah
quote:
pretty sure AMS is a lady and she is running this shite into the ground on TWO boards
I’m not assuming its gender, as trolls don’t require gender to exist.
Posted on 4/6/21 at 5:33 pm to 3nOut
quote:
That being said, he doesn’t see middle ground on most of these cases and hasn’t as far back as Ferguson. Not saying he’s wrong but there’s never been gray area
As is usual for this board, not going along with the dominant narrative of the board gets viewed with some oddness.
There’s plenty of gray here. I think Chauvin could very well be found not guilty. I also don’t think he acted wisely or in the best interests of the community when arresting Floyd.
It seems wrong to me that a police officer can end someone’s life with avoidable actions and suffer no consequences. Maybe that’s a hyper developed sense of justice.
Pretending Chauvin did nothing wrong doesn’t move our society to a better place. Pretending he set out to murder a black man doesn’t either. There’s plenty of room in the middle of those two positions. And I’m in that middle.
Posted on 4/6/21 at 5:34 pm to the808bass
quote:
People are seizing on a couple of statements and wresting them from context. There is a wide variability in what constitutes a fatal dose of fentanyl for a non-user to a habitual user. Several health professionals on here have been pretty adamant that his death doesn’t match up with the symptoms of an overdose. Nor does
Exactly what is the amount a normal user can handle before a OD? You can't answer that with facts because its all opinion. Im not sure who on here said his symptoms didn't match up with a OD because Floyds own GF testified that Floyd was exhibiting the same symptoms as he did when he overdosed a month before his death.
This post was edited on 4/6/21 at 5:36 pm
Posted on 4/6/21 at 5:37 pm to the808bass
quote:
seems wrong to me that a police officer can end someone’s life with avoidable actions and suffer no consequences. Maybe that’s
I 100% agree with you but thats not what happened in this case.
Posted on 4/6/21 at 5:39 pm to SOSFAN
quote:
You can't answer that with facts because its all opinion.
That’s not true. Users have had blood levels of fentanyl higher than Floyd’s and lived. So the talking point of 4X the lethal dose is just a talking point.
Posted on 4/6/21 at 5:41 pm to SOSFAN
quote:
100% agree with you but thats not what happened in this case.
Can you name a person wrongfully killed by the cops in the last three years?
Posted on 4/6/21 at 5:43 pm to mmcgrath
quote:
And you don't check for a pulse or if the guy is conscious?
You haven't paid any attention to the trial, have you?
Floyd had a pulse up until right before EMS carted him away. But on that same note, we ARE NOT trained in life-saving measures on a perp other than the complete basics like CPR.
We're trained to literally keep a combative perp restrained and subdued until compliance; or in the case of a medical necessity, until EMS can SAFELY provide treatment. Period.
There is no checking a perps vitals, running a tox screen, checking heart rate and 02 saturation, etc. in the heat of the moment and on the scene. All we are concerned about is keeping a potentially dangerous indivudual from injuring or killing us, EMS, bystanders, or any innocent individual.
So many of y'all confuse police and law enforcement responsibilities with EMS and first responder responsibilities. Law enforcement are already at the end of their ropes just keeping a dangerous and combative individual from inflicting further harm. THAT. IS. THEIR. JOB. and it's already dangerous and watered down enough.
Let a man break into your house with a gun to your wife or child's head, and see how concerned you are with making sure the perp is perfectly healthy and able to survive a restraint technique. My bet is that you'd want him or her to be taken down and restrained so they could be hauled away AT ANY COST.
Now what if that perp was claiming he couldn't breathe, that the cuffs were hurting him, that the knee to his back was hurting him? Would you care, or think he was simply bullshitting because he didn't want to be arrested and go to jail?
Thought so...
Posted on 4/6/21 at 5:45 pm to the808bass
quote:
Users have had blood levels of fentanyl higher than Floyd’s and lived. So the talking point of 4X the lethal dose
And users have had less and died. So again what is the exact amount would it have taken Floyd to have OD? You can't answer can you? First you have no clue what Floyds usage is so you don't know what tolerance he would have to a speedball. The gf testified that the they thought they were buying 1 type of drug and it turned out to be something different.
This post was edited on 4/6/21 at 5:57 pm
Posted on 4/6/21 at 5:45 pm to the808bass
quote:
As is usual for this board, not going along with the dominant narrative of the board gets viewed with some oddness.
Agreed. As much as I tend to agree with the groupthink here, it’s not always good to participate in it.
quote:
There’s plenty of gray here. I think Chauvin could very well be found not guilty. I also don’t think he acted wisely or in the best interests of the community when arresting Floyd.
He may be found guilty or not guilty, but your posts don’t indicate that of somebody who doesn’t have a pretty preset disposition on it. And that’s fine. I have my prejudices and opinions that are fallible as well.
quote:
It seems wrong to me that a police officer can end someone’s life with avoidable actions and suffer no consequences. Maybe that’s a hyper developed sense of justice.
That I think most can agree with. Of course the loudest minority on either side either want murder one or complete exoneration. Most probably agree that a lesser charge could and maybe should stick.
quote:
There’s plenty of room in the middle of those two positions. And I’m in that middle.
Maybe I’m misremembering but I just don’t seem to recall you being very middle about this or Ferguson. If I’m wrong my apologies.
As I said, I think you’re a great poster and get where you’re coming from but you don’t seem to come across as a person in these threads as not being set on the popo having been in the wrong. I don’t think I’d pick up on it if I didn’t agree with you so much on every other topic.
Hopefully that came off as respectfully as intended.
Posted on 4/6/21 at 5:45 pm to RazorBroncs
quote:
Now what if that perp was claiming he couldn't breathe, that the cuffs were hurting him, that the knee to his back was hurting him? Would you care, or think he was simply bullshitting because he didn't want to be arrested and go to jail?
So restraint asphyxia is just the cost of doing business with law enforcement?
Posted on 4/6/21 at 5:47 pm to the808bass
Not just that but they were drawn post-mortem.
If the prosecution had any sense, they’d bring in a toxicologist to discuss why that matters.
Anyway, my stance is I think there’s reasonable doubt for chauvin to avoid conviction but I also think there’s ample evidence to demonstrate need for reform.
If the prosecution had any sense, they’d bring in a toxicologist to discuss why that matters.
Anyway, my stance is I think there’s reasonable doubt for chauvin to avoid conviction but I also think there’s ample evidence to demonstrate need for reform.
Posted on 4/6/21 at 5:48 pm to auggie
quote:Talk about absurd.
You kneel on a guy that you know has overdosed on dope or alcohol, so that he is facing down. That way, he can't turn over on his back, because if he turns over on his back and vomits, he can drown. This can happen even after he passes out. You need to keep them face down.
Posted on 4/6/21 at 5:49 pm to the808bass
quote:
Can you name a person wrongfully killed by the cops in the last three years?
Exactly what does any other case have to do with this trial? Nothing...zip...zero.
I'm still waiting for you to give the exact amount needed For Floyd to OD as a " regular user". I do know that his gf said he got the same pills from the same person, less than 2 months before he died, and he spent 5 days in the hospital... oh and she testified that his physical symptoms were the exact same.
Posted on 4/6/21 at 5:52 pm to the808bass
quote:
restraint asphyxia is just the cost of doing business with law
Didn't the doctor testify yesterday thay fentanyl could have also caused the same high levels of CO2 that points to death by asphyxia? Why Yes he did.
Posted on 4/6/21 at 5:52 pm to 3nOut
quote:
but your posts don’t indicate that of somebody who doesn’t have a pretty preset disposition on it.
I think if you’ll read my posts carefully, you’ll see I’m arguing with specific points that are inaccurately or falsely presented. For example, in this thread, I’m discussing the idea that Floyd definitely overdosed (he didn’t). Or the idea that a person talking cannot run out of breath.
quote:
respectfully
No worries. None of that was offensive.
Posted on 4/6/21 at 5:54 pm to SOSFAN
quote:
Didn't the doctor testify yesterday thay fentanyl could have also caused the same high levels of CO2 that points to death by asphyxia? Why Yes he did.
I was arguing a little more generally. Razor Bronc seemed to say that restraining someone is more important than them living. I was clarifying that idea.
Posted on 4/6/21 at 5:54 pm to Big Scrub TX
quote:
Talk about absurd.
Have you ever had to take care of somebody who has overdosed? They frequently choke on their own vomit. If someone is in your custody, you don't want that happening. I know that you want to think that Chauvin was torturing the guy, but that's just not the case.
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