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re: Is there a worse form of government than democracy?

Posted on 3/17/25 at 7:09 am to
Posted by TrueTiger
Chicken's most valuable
Member since Sep 2004
79940 posts
Posted on 3/17/25 at 7:09 am to

The iron law of oligarchy says that democracy only last for a fleeting moment.


Posted by SallysHuman
Lady Palmetto Bug
Member since Jan 2025
13747 posts
Posted on 3/17/25 at 7:12 am to
Worst form of government?

Being ruled by unelected judges.
Posted by LSUFreek
Greater New Orleans
Member since Jan 2007
15865 posts
Posted on 3/17/25 at 7:13 am to
Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
Posted by Mike da Tigah
Bravo Romeo Lima Alpha
Member since Feb 2005
61361 posts
Posted on 3/17/25 at 7:22 am to
quote:

Tradition and custom have been replaced by whatever fleeting whims or prejudices the mob favors at a given time. The result is what we see - cultural decay and moral/financial bankruptcy.



That speaks more to the moral decay in the people themselves rather than the government who those people elect, which in turn simply reflects themselves, and they don’t like the reflection they’re seeing.

Any government is corrupt if the people are also corrupt, but this government serves the people best when the people hold to a different set of morals and standards.


John Adams once said that,

quote:

"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other,"
Posted by grizzlylongcut
Member since Sep 2021
14317 posts
Posted on 3/17/25 at 7:28 am to
Democracy is where the wolves and sheep decide what’s for dinner.

Democracy does suck.

Constitutional republicanism on the other hand, is awesome.

quote:

More of what we earn today goes to the federal government than what we were paying to the crown when we rebelled.


Yep, and we need to do something about that.
Posted by SallysHuman
Lady Palmetto Bug
Member since Jan 2025
13747 posts
Posted on 3/17/25 at 7:35 am to
quote:

Democracy is where the wolves and sheep decide what’s for dinner.


I love this illustration and it is how I've explained democracy to my children.
Posted by Sweep Da Leg
Member since Sep 2013
2215 posts
Posted on 3/17/25 at 7:35 am to
quote:

If you distilled each of the classic forms of government (monarchy, oligarchy, and democracy) down to its pure and best form, monarchy is obviously the best, and that shouldn’t be controversial either. However, the best government is suited to the people it rules. Each form can be more or less appropriate depending on who the people are that it governs. When America was founded, I think the federal system with democratically elected representatives was the natural and correct system which organically arose from the circumstances. The problem today is multifaceted. First, the system which was initially set up has been diluted substantially over time. Universal suffrage was never meant to be the law of the land for the voting of representatives, and the founders would have considered it lunacy for this to be so. Everyone knows it’s bad, everyone can see that not everyone deserves a vote, but we’ve been so conditioned into this liberal hyper individualist form of thinking no one has the gumption to call it out for the disaster that it is. Second, people have been brainwashed into not even properly understanding what the current system actually is. It’s hard to see, because technically it has more “democracy” than the founding, but the expansion of suffrage was and always has been a cynical tool for bolstering oligarchy. That is what our current system is, oligarchy. It doesn’t work like the constitution says, unelected bureaucrats and agencies control everything we do, along with a Congress with outrageous incumbency rates (due to cynical manipulation of the underclass voting as mentioned earlier). FDR created a new form of government that is nothing like what the constitution says it is. And a creative theater keeps everyone pretending it is what we think it is supposed to be. Now we get to today, with a people unfit to rule themselves and alienated from their own society. I think it is inevitable a Caesar figure comes to rule over a shattered and inept republic just as happened in Rome, the question is when. A true hierarchical monarchy would not work here, because it requires an organic tradition that the population respects, and that would be impossible to achieve.


100% agree
Posted by lake chuck fan
Vinton
Member since Aug 2011
21247 posts
Posted on 3/17/25 at 7:39 am to
quote:

The result is what we see - cultural decay and moral/financial bankruptcy



Luckily, we don't live in a nation rules by democracy:
quote:


The United States operates under a constitutional federal republic, meaning it's a government where power is divided between a central authority and state governments, and where the people elect representatives to exercise power, all within a framework defined by a constitution.


Understanding our form of government is one that congressional representation is elected by we the people.....
The responsibility our federal government is the responsibility of we the people who have voted in
those representing us.
Posted by OBReb6
Memphissippi
Member since Jul 2010
41553 posts
Posted on 3/17/25 at 8:07 am to
quote:

Understanding our form of government is one that congressional representation is elected by we the people..... The responsibility our federal government is the responsibility of we the people who have voted in those representing us.


Representatives have delegated all of their power to the “expert” class to do as they see fit. And by extension the only real power they continue to hold is the power of the purse, which has become more or less automatic.
Do you feel represented? Does your congressman or senator listen to anyone?
Posted by RogerTheShrubber
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
295724 posts
Posted on 3/17/25 at 8:11 am to
quote:

Yeah literally everything else so far blows arse in comparison. We have never seen the average person have it so good.


The fatal desire for egalitarianism is always hiding behind the Social Democracy banner. Democracy is great for some things, but it has fatal flaws like trying to pretend humans are equal and deserve equal outcomes.

The social Democrats always seem to hijack the train and turn it into a bureaucratic dictatorships
Posted by lake chuck fan
Vinton
Member since Aug 2011
21247 posts
Posted on 3/17/25 at 8:30 am to
quote:

Do you feel represented? Does your congressman or senator listen to anyone?


That's my point. We are the ones that choose our representatives. If we don't feel "represented", it's in the voters to choose a different person.
Posted by wackatimesthree
Member since Oct 2019
10448 posts
Posted on 3/17/25 at 8:56 am to
quote:

I think a monarchy would probably preferable to a system where the only requirement to have a voice in the direction of the country is merely existing.


I point this out to atheists all the time.

Atheists have no basis for their morality other than simple personal preference, whether that personal preference be individual or collective.

They always try to act as though "human flourishing" is sufficient as a baseline moral foundation, (even though it itself is a completely random standard), yet they don't want to deal with inconvenient facts like democracy being something that we hold up as being a highest ideal, yet it really isn't the best pathway to human flourishing.

A benevolent dictatorship with a constitution that places limits on government encroachment of outlined citizen's rights as well as limits on the dictator's ability to enrich himself off the taxpayers is clearly far more efficient and less likely to pursue frivolous and/or absurd distractions.

And remember, the founders realized this too. They never envisioned going to Wal-Mart, looking around at all of the shining examples of the Great Unwashed, and giving those people a say in influencing the government.

The country was conceived as a republic, but voting rights weren't supposed to be extended to anyone over a certain age who could fog a mirror. There were supposed to be filters to ensure that only serious adults who had skin in the game, so to speak, got to exert that influence.

The type of democracy we have devolved to is folly and guaranteed to fail.

It's the reason that we will not control spending. It's the reason that nothing will ever be done about SS/Medicare. We will simply ignore it until the bubble bursts and we go over the cliff financially.

Posted by wackatimesthree
Member since Oct 2019
10448 posts
Posted on 3/17/25 at 8:59 am to
quote:

Representatives have delegated all of their power to the “expert” class to do as they see fit.


The government was designed to give influence only to certain classes.

It was never supposed to give equal representation to everyone.

This is common sense. If you were overseeing a project and you had 20 people participating ranging from people with IQs of 140 down to IQs of 85, you would not give every one of them equal influence over decisions.

If you did, you'd probably be one of the people in the 85 IQ range.

The Founding Fathers were not populists. They were Elitists.
Posted by Lord of the Hogs
Member since Sep 2023
3570 posts
Posted on 3/17/25 at 9:00 am to
In a democracy, the elected officials can always hide behind the majority.
Posted by Cuz413
Member since Nov 2007
9925 posts
Posted on 3/17/25 at 9:04 am to
No.

The size of the country at a population of 330M is too big to be governed by the same number of people when it was 4M people.

You do not have adequate representation.

Posted by RCDfan1950
United States
Member since Feb 2007
38634 posts
Posted on 3/17/25 at 9:05 am to
“Mob rule” in effect. The Founders feared and loathed a purely democratic government and limited such via the Constitution. Albeit they knew that such would only work for “a moral and religious “ citizenry. The subjective debate and struggle for what constitutes religion and morality is in full swing. Likely to get painful for all at some point.
Posted by OBReb6
Memphissippi
Member since Jul 2010
41553 posts
Posted on 3/17/25 at 9:13 am to
quote:

The government was designed to give influence only to certain classes.

It was never supposed to give equal representation to everyone.

This is common sense. If you were overseeing a project and you had 20 people participating ranging from people with IQs of 140 down to IQs of 85, you would not give every one of them equal influence over decisions.

If you did, you'd probably be one of the people in the 85 IQ range.

The Founding Fathers were not populists. They were Elitists.


I don’t disagree with you, it’s just that these supposed experts and pseudo aristocracy no longer functions in the manner it was supposed to.

The current iteration was created by FDR, who for all intents and purposes was a dictator for life of the US. The elitist bureaucracy expert class he created to rule the country was truly impressive, and pulled off amazing things like the Manhattan project, and Apollo program, etc.

The problem today is the same shell of a system has been running on autopilot more or less with little fiefdoms, and perverse incentives have corrupted everything to the core so that nothing can be accomplished.

A real article 2 president is needed to steer this ship. Trump is trying to be that, I just am not sure he has everything it takes.
This post was edited on 3/17/25 at 9:15 am
Posted by wackatimesthree
Member since Oct 2019
10448 posts
Posted on 3/17/25 at 9:18 am to
quote:

The problem today is the same shell of a system has been running on autopilot more or less with little fiefdoms, and perverse incentives have corrupted everything to the core so that nothing can be accomplished.


Fair enough.

It's a different dynamic when you have an organized agency of people who will prioritize the agency's best interests.

The idea the FFs were working with had to do with individuals, not agencies.
Posted by GeauxBurrow312
Member since Nov 2024
5001 posts
Posted on 3/17/25 at 9:55 am to
There is a book called Democracy: The God That Failed which makes a good argument for this. Historically taxes are lower in monarchies than in democracy - Monarchs feared over taxing and policing their population since the population did not have a vested stake in the government
Posted by RandRules
Member since Mar 2025
246 posts
Posted on 3/17/25 at 10:28 am to
Great post, well thought out. Why do you think a monarchy is the best form of government? This is not a gotcha post or anything, I’m just interested to hear your thoughts on it
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