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Started By
Message
Interesting breakdown of the Arbery case so far.
Posted on 11/16/21 at 5:21 pm
Posted on 11/16/21 at 5:21 pm
Ben Shaprio interviews a trial lawyer who's been keeping a close eye on the Rittenhouse and Arbery case.
The Ben Shapiro Show
First 5 minutes they talk about Rittenhouse, from minute 6 and on they talk about the Arbery case.
Key takeaways:
- Nothing admitted into evidence or testimony as of yet that the father or son used racist language. The confederate flag sticker on the truck will be allowed in court though.
- Robert Rash responded to a call about someone being on Mr. English's construction site on Feb 11th (Arbery was show on the 23rd). Body cam footage shows Rash speaking with the McMichaels about what was going on. They told Officer Rash that they knew that the same guy had been spotted on camera 5 times, that items had been stolen, and Travis said that he had a run in with the guy and believed he was armed.
- In order to justify a citizen's arrest in the state of Georgia, one needs to act on the "preponderance of evidence" and not "beyond a reasonable doubt". Essentially what does that scenario suggest more? That the person who had been spotted, at night, at that property 5 separate times, where items were stolen, was committing crimes or wasn't committing crimes? Even if it's only 51/49, that's the majority and supports a citizen's arrest.
The Ben Shapiro Show
First 5 minutes they talk about Rittenhouse, from minute 6 and on they talk about the Arbery case.
Key takeaways:
- Nothing admitted into evidence or testimony as of yet that the father or son used racist language. The confederate flag sticker on the truck will be allowed in court though.
- Robert Rash responded to a call about someone being on Mr. English's construction site on Feb 11th (Arbery was show on the 23rd). Body cam footage shows Rash speaking with the McMichaels about what was going on. They told Officer Rash that they knew that the same guy had been spotted on camera 5 times, that items had been stolen, and Travis said that he had a run in with the guy and believed he was armed.
- In order to justify a citizen's arrest in the state of Georgia, one needs to act on the "preponderance of evidence" and not "beyond a reasonable doubt". Essentially what does that scenario suggest more? That the person who had been spotted, at night, at that property 5 separate times, where items were stolen, was committing crimes or wasn't committing crimes? Even if it's only 51/49, that's the majority and supports a citizen's arrest.
11
Posted on 11/16/21 at 5:25 pm to Azkiger
What did he steal the day he was shot?
Posted on 11/16/21 at 5:26 pm to Azkiger
If they get a not guilty on this one I will laugh my fricking arse off.
Posted on 11/16/21 at 5:28 pm to OccamsStubble
quote:
What did he steal the day he was shot?
quote:
In order to justify a citizen's arrest in the state of Georgia, one needs to act on the "preponderance of evidence" and not "beyond a reasonable doubt". Essentially what does that scenario suggest more? That the person who had been spotted, at night, at that property 5 separate times, where items were stolen, was committing crimes or wasn't committing crimes? Even if it's only 51/49, that's the majority and supports a citizen's arrest.
Posted on 11/16/21 at 5:29 pm to Azkiger
I read all that but what did he steal the day he was shot?
Posted on 11/16/21 at 5:29 pm to OccamsStubble
quote:
What did he steal the day he was shot?
His ability to see another day.
Posted on 11/16/21 at 5:30 pm to OccamsStubble
quote:
What did he steal the day he was shot?
Reading is fundamental……………SMDH
Posted on 11/16/21 at 5:31 pm to OccamsStubble
quote:
I read all that but what did he steal the day he was shot?
Unlikely anything.
Defense showed police doing a very poor job canvasing the area for potential items dropped, but that doesn't prove anything.
After watching the neighbor's house footage across the street it seems he got spooked when that homeowner walked to the end of his driveway on the phone looking at him.
Posted on 11/16/21 at 5:33 pm to Azkiger
quote:
In order to justify a citizen's arrest in the state of Georgia, one needs to act on the "preponderance of evidence" and not "beyond a reasonable doubt". Essentially what does that scenario suggest more? That the person who had been spotted, at night, at that property 5 separate times, where items were stolen, was committing crimes or wasn't committing crimes? Even if it's only 51/49, that's the majority and supports a citizen's arrest.
So the people on the show didn’t even know Georgia law. Interesting.
Posted on 11/16/21 at 5:33 pm to Azkiger
quote:Can you expound upon this? I think this is a reference to the standard in a civil lawsuit for the tort of "false imprisonment," and thus not particularly-relevant to this criminal trial.
In order to justify a citizen's arrest in the state of Georgia, one needs to act on the "preponderance of evidence" and not "beyond a reasonable doubt". Essentially what does that scenario suggest more? That the person who had been spotted, at night, at that property 5 separate times, where items were stolen, was committing crimes or wasn't committing crimes? Even if it's only 51/49, that's the majority and supports a citizen's arrest.
This case includes charges for false arrest, and the burden is on the State to prove the elements of that crime "beyond a reasonable doubt." The Defendants do not want an easier standard ... preponderance.
It is possible that you are confusing your terms slightly. Under the former statute, a citizen was able to make an arrest based upon "probably cause" (rather than the stricter "direct personal knowledge") if the crime is a felony and the suspect is attempting to escape. Is it possible that you misheard "probable cause" as "preponderance?"
It is also possible that Shapiro has a guest from California or somewhere similar, who just does not know much about Georgia law.
This post was edited on 11/16/21 at 5:38 pm
Posted on 11/16/21 at 5:33 pm to OccamsStubble
quote:
I read all that but what did he steal the day he was shot?
So read what is quoted below very slowly and ponder it for at least 10 minutes before posting again. Maybe if you let you brain marinate in that statement for that long you may understand why your question is unnecessary…..if not then there is no hope for you!
quote:
In order to justify a citizen's arrest in the state of Georgia, one needs to act on the "preponderance of evidence" and not "beyond a reasonable doubt".
Posted on 11/16/21 at 5:34 pm to Azkiger
Just seems like if you suspect a guy of stealing, and rather than film him doing so or calling the police you choose to chase him down and shoot him, you should at minimum be able to retrieve the stuff he stole from the corpse.
Posted on 11/16/21 at 5:36 pm to Azkiger
Does it say you can kill them
Posted on 11/16/21 at 5:37 pm to Azkiger
Yeah I originally figured they had the no right to citizens arrest. Once I saw he had been to the property 5 other times, I change my stance.
I still think they shouldn’t have gone vigilante. Rittenhouse is completely diff because rosenbaum would have attacked them earlier if multiple people weren’t standing there with guns. They were looking to get Kyle while he was alone.
I still think they shouldn’t have gone vigilante. Rittenhouse is completely diff because rosenbaum would have attacked them earlier if multiple people weren’t standing there with guns. They were looking to get Kyle while he was alone.
Posted on 11/16/21 at 5:37 pm to OccamsStubble
Yes. To have immediate knowledge of a crime to effect a citizen’s arrest, one might assume that there’s a crime.
Posted on 11/16/21 at 5:37 pm to OccamsStubble
quote:
What did he steal the day he was shot?
Even if he did steal something (which he didn’t) it doesn’t matter. You can’t chase after a guy and corner him at gunpoint. He has a right to defend himself if you do.
The law values life over property.
You cannot use deadly force or the threat of deadly force to protect property.
I will be very surprised if the defendants are found not guilty.
Posted on 11/16/21 at 5:37 pm to OccamsStubble
quote:
Just seems like if you suspect a guy of stealing, and rather than film him doing so or calling the police you choose to chase him down and shoot him, you should at minimum be able to retrieve the stuff he stole from the corpse.
Well, it's a citizen's arrest law, not a citizen's execution law.
There's a corpse involved because he reached for a gun, not because he was suspected of stealing.
Posted on 11/16/21 at 5:37 pm to Hayekian serf
quote:
Does it say you can kill them
If you feel like your neighborhood is in danger, you can shoot errybody anytime.
Posted on 11/16/21 at 5:38 pm to Hayekian serf
quote:
Does it say you can kill them
Does it say you can reach for a weapon that is aimed at you? Two can play stupid games? In the case in question one definitely won!
Posted on 11/16/21 at 5:38 pm to OccamsStubble
quote:
you choose to chase him down and shoot him,
I think the guys made very poor decisions but that's BS. They chose to chase him, but they didn't shoot the guy because they suspected him of anything. They shot him because he tried to grab their gun.
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