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Message
re: Income Tax vs Flat/Sales Tax. Which is Better?
Posted on 1/19/23 at 2:40 pm to RTN
Posted on 1/19/23 at 2:40 pm to RTN
quote:
Instead of a consumption tax, why not just make income tax flat instead of progressive. Then everyone pays the same rate.
Drug dealers don't report all their income. The smart ones create businesses and have real estate but not all of their income is reported.
There are only 5 states without a sales tax and Oregon is one. Lots of black market money flowing that isn't taxed in that state.
Consumption tax makes it fair for everyone.
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Posted on 1/19/23 at 2:48 pm to OU Guy
If McCarthy and the Republicans start jacking with the tax code, you're talking about widespread Republican defeats at the polls that just won't quit.
Do you realize exactly how discriminatory, against lower-income Americans, a 30% "flat tax" really is? It makes me sick to my stomach just to put that in print.
Do you realize exactly how discriminatory, against lower-income Americans, a 30% "flat tax" really is? It makes me sick to my stomach just to put that in print.
Posted on 1/19/23 at 2:53 pm to tarzana
quote:
tarzana
Idiots like you need to cover for the losers.
Posted on 1/21/23 at 4:02 am to OU Guy
quote:
Lower earners would pay less tax as they buy less. Higher pay more since they buy more shite.
Was that meant to be a joke?
Posted on 1/21/23 at 4:11 am to OU Guy
Get ready for every human being to have to be a tax reporter since all transactions would thus have to be taxed with sales tax added on.
Get ready for every time you sell a used car for example, for you to have to hand in something to the IRS far more complicated than the Turbotax thing many people fill out now.
Get ready for every time you sell a used car for example, for you to have to hand in something to the IRS far more complicated than the Turbotax thing many people fill out now.
Posted on 1/21/23 at 4:12 am to OU Guy
Meh. We just had a stolen election. Taxation isn’t what you should be concerned about. We also have an open border. A flat tax, while ideal, doesn’t work. Foreigners aren’t paying. If we had a fair election this would be a real topic.
Posted on 1/21/23 at 4:16 am to OU Guy
We should eliminate income tax, move to the Fair Tax, and require a constitutional amendment to change anything about taxes afterwards. This is the only way to maintain a fair tax system, and even that would get eroded eventually.
Posted on 1/21/23 at 5:18 am to RogerTheShrubber
The argument has always been, that if its flat, a consumption tax, etc it disproportionately affects the poor, okay if thats the case.......then why does the fed govt charge a flat tax on fuel? why does your city charge a flat tax on water, on real estate (that they then pass on to their renters). Hmmm.
The poor pay the same for a loaf of bread and a gallon of milk as the rich, why are taxes supposed to be treated differently.....because then your govt can chose the winners and losers.....and make bank along the way through lobbyists.
By the way, with the 10s of millions of illegals, there is a trillion dollar underground economy out there not being taxed at all and this could easily bring in 100s of billions in tax revenue.
The poor pay the same for a loaf of bread and a gallon of milk as the rich, why are taxes supposed to be treated differently.....because then your govt can chose the winners and losers.....and make bank along the way through lobbyists.
By the way, with the 10s of millions of illegals, there is a trillion dollar underground economy out there not being taxed at all and this could easily bring in 100s of billions in tax revenue.
This post was edited on 1/21/23 at 5:22 am
Posted on 1/21/23 at 5:24 am to OU Guy
You can run this entire government on tariffs with no income tax. We did it for the first 150 years.
Posted on 1/21/23 at 5:27 am to FATBOY TIGER
quote:
Not one cent till they pass a reasonable budget voted on by property owning Americans.
You want budgets voted on by referendum?
Posted on 1/21/23 at 5:45 am to Wally Sparks
The other advantage is the fact that the IRS does not have to track down every individual, like SS, Medicare, the businesses collect the tax and the IRS just has to check them, far less tax points and far less complication.
Posted on 1/21/23 at 5:50 am to OU Guy
I despise school millage taxes. It's unfair to property owners. The more you own in property the more millage you pay eventhough you have no children going to school while a family that rents and has three kids going to school don't pay a dime in millage taxes.
Posted on 1/21/23 at 6:51 am to Homesick Tiger
quote:
despise school millage taxes. It's unfair to property owners. The more you own in property the more millage you pay eventhough you have no children going to school while a family that rents and has three kids going to school don't pay a dime in millage taxes.
They do, it’s in thier rent. They probably don’t realize, just like you didn’t, and that causes a problem when they vote with the concept a service funded by property tax only benefits them.
Homestead exemption is different, and it’s a HUGE problem for this state because it requires higher millage rates for people who develop property because so many people are completely exempt, and creates a large class of people who will always support property taxes because they see no negative consequences for them personally.
This post was edited on 1/21/23 at 6:54 am
Posted on 1/21/23 at 7:01 am to OU Guy
There are many considerations to this. Forty years ago, in my LSU Engineering Economics course, I did a paper on this. Unfortunately, the wisdom contained therein is lost to posterity. But I remember that I was in favor of a flat tax.
The flat income tax is my preferred mechanism. Contrary to much criticism of it, it would actually raise taxes on the wealthy. The owner of our company pays over $250,000 each year to have his taxes prepared. Much of this is spent to exploit gimmicks in the tax code, and I assure you, he pays a lower top rate than many on here who make a good deal less. Inclusive of State income taxes, his top income tax rate is about 36%. But that doesn’t take into consideration R&D tax credits, Pandemic era PPP, Innovation tax rebates, etc. When all of that is figured in, He is probably paying less than 30% total - state and federal.
Give me a 27% Federal and 3% State rate, and let them keep the money they’re paying to accountants and lawyers, and the whole economy could be made more efficient. These tax professionals could be redeployed, and the Federal and State bureaucracies could also be.
A Sales tax would be another matter. There are probably lots of merits to it but the switch to it would be so traumatic that it could cripple our economy. This is due to the incentives for saving and spending flipping suddenly. I would be scared of that one.
The flat income tax is my preferred mechanism. Contrary to much criticism of it, it would actually raise taxes on the wealthy. The owner of our company pays over $250,000 each year to have his taxes prepared. Much of this is spent to exploit gimmicks in the tax code, and I assure you, he pays a lower top rate than many on here who make a good deal less. Inclusive of State income taxes, his top income tax rate is about 36%. But that doesn’t take into consideration R&D tax credits, Pandemic era PPP, Innovation tax rebates, etc. When all of that is figured in, He is probably paying less than 30% total - state and federal.
Give me a 27% Federal and 3% State rate, and let them keep the money they’re paying to accountants and lawyers, and the whole economy could be made more efficient. These tax professionals could be redeployed, and the Federal and State bureaucracies could also be.
A Sales tax would be another matter. There are probably lots of merits to it but the switch to it would be so traumatic that it could cripple our economy. This is due to the incentives for saving and spending flipping suddenly. I would be scared of that one.
Posted on 1/21/23 at 7:22 am to OU Guy
Sales tax. On every movable sold in interstate commerce. Including securities.
The only way it works is if the 16th Amendment is abolished.
The rate should be constitutionally established.
The only way it works is if the 16th Amendment is abolished.
The rate should be constitutionally established.
Posted on 1/21/23 at 7:23 am to Hopeful Doc
quote:
The argument is that this tax disproportionately affects those with low income
Easily gotten around by giving the poor a subsidy with which they can pay their taxes.
Posted on 1/21/23 at 7:28 am to LolStarFishlol
quote:
Businesses can’t run from their taxes because all of their inventory will be taxed.
Most states already have a business property tax that taxes the value of a business's inventory and fixed assets annually.
There are also use taxes.
Posted on 1/21/23 at 7:31 am to texridder
quote:
Lower earners would pay less tax as they buy less. Higher pay more since they buy more shite.
Was that meant to be a joke?
Why would this be a joke? If you are poor buy store brand instead of name brand and guess what you pay less taxes compared to your income.
If you can't afford steak get chicken or pork. Save on your taxes. If people are too stupid as consumers to understand buy cheaper goods pay less in taxes that's not my fault.
Ultimately life isn't fair not every can have filet and lobster every night.
Posted on 1/21/23 at 7:45 am to LSUFanHouston
quote:
For who?
The poor will pay more tax and the rich will pay less tax under such a system.
If you start saying, well exempt groceries, exempt medicine, etc, you are going to start again with the complexities the current system has.
Then, who is going to collect this tax? More importantly, who is going to audit to make sure the proper amount is being collected? The more exemptions... the more complex to audit!
Any of you been through a state or local sales tax audit? IRS income tax audits are child's play compared to an IRS income tax audit.
The fact is this... no matter what kind of tax you have, you will need an agency to collect it and enforce it. You can give it a different name if you like, but it will still be there.
Get out of here with your facts and logic, baw!
Only feels are allowed on this board.
You are 100% correct on this one.
Posted on 1/21/23 at 7:48 am to Flats
quote:
No. Once you open the door to exemptions you introduce lobbyists and bribes to the game and you give congress the power that you're trying to take away from them.
Yes and special interest groups like feminists who demand no sales tax on tampons and other menstral supplies. Louisiana caved a few years ago. As a man, I demand a sales tax exemption on shaving supplies.
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