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Income Tax vs Flat/Sales Tax. Which is Better?
Posted on 1/19/23 at 12:39 pm
Posted on 1/19/23 at 12:39 pm
Edit: My meaning by flat tax is a sales/consumption tax, pay tax as you buy shite.
I like the concept of flat tax and do away with income tax plus the IRS. Think of all the rich people they pay little tax due to loop holes. Drug dealers money is not reported so untaxed. If flat tax then people pay tax based on how much they buy. But you keep all your money until spent.
Lots of finer details would have to be worked out but overall I think a flat tax would get higher income folks to pay more of our taxes since they can buy jets and fancy cars and mansions.
Maybe have first $1k of rent non taxed. Groceries non taxed. Would take a huge education campaign too.
Not sure how states would handle it, would they keep income tax or go flat and add on?
What say you?
I like the concept of flat tax and do away with income tax plus the IRS. Think of all the rich people they pay little tax due to loop holes. Drug dealers money is not reported so untaxed. If flat tax then people pay tax based on how much they buy. But you keep all your money until spent.
Lots of finer details would have to be worked out but overall I think a flat tax would get higher income folks to pay more of our taxes since they can buy jets and fancy cars and mansions.
Maybe have first $1k of rent non taxed. Groceries non taxed. Would take a huge education campaign too.
Not sure how states would handle it, would they keep income tax or go flat and add on?
What say you?
This post was edited on 1/19/23 at 12:47 pm
44
Posted on 1/19/23 at 12:40 pm to OU Guy
No Income Tax and No property tax. F'em.
Posted on 1/19/23 at 12:40 pm to OU Guy
Consumption tax.
Posted on 1/19/23 at 12:41 pm to OU Guy
quote:
Maybe have first $1k of rent non taxed. Groceries non taxed. Would take a huge education campaign too.
No. Once you open the door to exemptions you introduce lobbyists and bribes to the game and you give congress the power that you're trying to take away from them.
Posted on 1/19/23 at 12:42 pm to OU Guy
Instead of a consumption tax, why not just make income tax flat instead of progressive. Then everyone pays the same rate.
Posted on 1/19/23 at 12:42 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Consumption tax.
Yes, thats what I’m saying. Sales tax flat tax consumption tax all the same meaning to me. Pay as you go. Lower earners would pay less tax as they buy less. Higher pay more since they buy more shite.
Posted on 1/19/23 at 12:43 pm to Flats
Consumption tax no exemptions. Perhaps consumption tax on non necessities. Similar to flood. Food isn't taxed.
Farmers about to be fricked though.
Farmers about to be fricked though.
Posted on 1/19/23 at 12:44 pm to OU Guy
Consumption tax, if I don’t want to pay taxes for a certain month, just don’t buy shite. The rich can’t run from their taxes, as they are always buying shite. Businesses can’t run from their taxes because all of their inventory will be taxed.
Posted on 1/19/23 at 12:44 pm to RTN
quote:
Instead of a consumption tax, why not just make income tax flat instead of progressive. Then everyone pays the same rate.
Because we can get rid of IRS with flat/sales tax.
Posted on 1/19/23 at 12:46 pm to OU Guy
Not one cent till they pass a reasonable budget voted on by property owning Americans.
My idea would be to set it at 17% FOR EVERYBODY and work within those constraints like me and my family does.
My idea would be to set it at 17% FOR EVERYBODY and work within those constraints like me and my family does.
Posted on 1/19/23 at 12:46 pm to OU Guy
All this talk is making me nostalgic for all of the Fair Tax threads we had here in 2008-2009. Used to be a hot topic here.
Posted on 1/19/23 at 12:49 pm to OU Guy
quote:
Edit: My meaning by flat tax is a sales/consumption tax, pay tax as you buy shite.
Flat tax and national retail sales tax in place of income tax are two entirely different matters.
Posted on 1/19/23 at 12:52 pm to VoxDawg
quote:
Flat tax and national retail sales tax in place of income tax are two entirely different matters.
I fricked up saying flat. I mean sales and pay as you go but the rate is same for all. Its flat but via sales.
Posted on 1/19/23 at 12:52 pm to RTN
quote:
Instead of a consumption tax, why not just make income tax flat instead of progressive. Then everyone pays the same rate.
The argument is that this tax disproportionately affects those with low income, and it is fairly undeniably true that this is the case (13% of 10,000 is a lot harder to let go of than 13% of $100,000 and is a lot harder to let go of than 13% of $1,000,000 in terms of making ends meet and pretty much any conceivable quality of life metric when we look at how the current system impacts those in the lower income ranges)).
The argument for flat tax says, “it’s ok because this is fair”
The argument against says, “ok, maybe some deductions are ok, and maybe we should have a more tax-heavy system”
Throw on about 100 years of the thought in the latter, and we are at today. It’s also the reason that tax cuts disproportionately “help” the “rich”- when the bottom 50% pays essentially nothing in taxes, it’s hard to give them more money by not charging them a smaller percentage of nothing.
Posted on 1/19/23 at 12:53 pm to OU Guy
income tax is theft. So...anything but that.
Posted on 1/19/23 at 12:55 pm to Hopeful Doc
quote:
The argument for flat tax says, “it’s ok because this is fair”
I'm past that point. Even if I thought a progressive tax was "fair", from a pragmatic aspect it's not fooking working. Having half the country essentially firewalled (in one direction) from federal spending is a disaster.
Posted on 1/19/23 at 12:56 pm to Flats
quote:
No. Once you open the door to exemptions you introduce lobbyists and bribes to the game
In the fifties the tax code was over 11,000 pages. The first two pages were all it took to list your marginal brackets, and a statement that all sources of income had to be included.
The remaining 10,998 were dedicated to lobbyists carving out exceptions and exemptions for various people and groups.
This post was edited on 1/19/23 at 12:59 pm
Posted on 1/19/23 at 12:57 pm to Hopeful Doc
The problem now is rich folk have layers of tax lawyers to comb tax laws and find ways around paying. So in reality the lower income brackets pay more tax than the rich.
Taxing sales would capture the rich sales at purchase. That in then might allow the tax cents per dollar to be lower thqn income tax for a lot of people as higher income earners would pay more taxes via sales since they buy more stuff.
The tax codes are out of hand and IRS is used as a political weapon. Sales tax eliminates all the bias. The more you spend the more tax you pay.
Its not perfect but better than current system
Taxing sales would capture the rich sales at purchase. That in then might allow the tax cents per dollar to be lower thqn income tax for a lot of people as higher income earners would pay more taxes via sales since they buy more stuff.
The tax codes are out of hand and IRS is used as a political weapon. Sales tax eliminates all the bias. The more you spend the more tax you pay.
Its not perfect but better than current system
Posted on 1/19/23 at 1:03 pm to Hopeful Doc
quote:
Throw on about 100 years of the thought in the latter, and we are at today.
Bingo. The Reagan tax restructuring bill of 1984 took us down to two different tax brackets, and two only. The slippery slope of industry-requested deductions, carve-outs, etc are precisely why we're where we are now.
Some of the strongest arguments for the NRST is that it spreads the burden of paying the taxes that are collected by the Treasury among ALL consumers in the United States. Employees, CEOs, drug dealers, tourists, illegal aliens, everyone.
The bill is structured to be practically equivalent to the amount of embedded corporate income taxes which are currently passed along the distribution chain and ultimately paid by retail consumers at the point of sale. This figure is somewhere between 21-23% of the cost of what you pay for new goods at the register. Corporations do not PAY income taxes, they COLLECT them and send it back to the IRS.
Families at/below the poverty line are insulated from the cost of the NRST paid at the point of sale via a "prebate" which is calculated by Treasury as being the estimated cost of NRST paid by a family each month, based on size. That amount is sent to each family at the beginning of every month.
I'd recommend beginning here: How FairTax works
Posted on 1/19/23 at 1:04 pm to OU Guy
Reminder: the Founding Fathers believed the income tax was such an onerous concept, it took a Constitutional amendment just to LEGALIZE it.
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