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re: I'm sick of people saying the middle class is worse off than 4 decades ago.
Posted on 3/13/17 at 4:36 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
Posted on 3/13/17 at 4:36 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
One of the big differences today is people have more monthly bills. The "necessities" have changed. Any household that makes 50k a year likely has
Cable or satellite tv (50-150 a month)
Netflix or similar service(12 bucks a month)
High speed internet (50-100 dollars a month)
Cell phone, sometimes numerous ones (50-400dollars a month)
God knows what other monthly bills they choose such as online subscriptions.
Add that to rent/mortgage, car note, insurance, utilities, gas, food and a family making 50-70k a year could easily feel "poor".
If you made that kind of money and lived with only a landline phone, basic Internet, no cable tv only local channels, a modest car and 2-3 bedroom house or apartment like people in the 70s (minus Internet) you'd be pretty well off.
Cable or satellite tv (50-150 a month)
Netflix or similar service(12 bucks a month)
High speed internet (50-100 dollars a month)
Cell phone, sometimes numerous ones (50-400dollars a month)
God knows what other monthly bills they choose such as online subscriptions.
Add that to rent/mortgage, car note, insurance, utilities, gas, food and a family making 50-70k a year could easily feel "poor".
If you made that kind of money and lived with only a landline phone, basic Internet, no cable tv only local channels, a modest car and 2-3 bedroom house or apartment like people in the 70s (minus Internet) you'd be pretty well off.
3
Posted on 3/13/17 at 4:37 pm to the808bass
quote:So right.
One of the best ways for the middle class to "get better" rather quickly is to stop getting divorced.
Posted on 3/13/17 at 4:37 pm to ShortyRob
quote:
I forced the average person in the middle class today to live like an upper middle class person from 1970 they would shite their Collective pants
Between daycare, student loans (let's say graduate school) and house payment that's 7/8 of total income. With two professionals working. You think it was more expensive in 1975?
If so what cost more then?
Posted on 3/13/17 at 4:38 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:you are supporting your position all wrong. Don't get caught up in trying to compare apples to apples from 1970 to the year 2017. That's a sucker's bet
Food is cheaper, energy is cheaper, most things in your house are cheaper, etc.
It goes so much farther than what you buy straight up. I mean come on you got people in here comparing their phone bill from 1975 or 80 to now. As if they're even remotely the same product.
Posted on 3/13/17 at 4:38 pm to deltaland
quote:
a modest car and 2-3 bedroom house or apartment like people in the 70s (minus Internet) you'd be pretty well off.
In the poorer parts of the country sure.
Posted on 3/13/17 at 4:38 pm to Kino74
quote:
The standard of living is higher today
Average home sizes are 1000 SF larger today than in the 1970s.
Posted on 3/13/17 at 4:39 pm to deltaland
quote:see this is more in line with the right way to look at it. Not perfectly dead on mind you but pretty close. The bottom line is if all you wanted to do was live like somebody from 1970 you could live like a fricking King today on a middle-class income
If you made that kind of money and lived with only a landline phone, basic Internet, no cable tv only local channels, a modest car and 2-3 bedroom house or apartment like people in the 70s (minus Internet) you'd be pretty well off.
Posted on 3/13/17 at 4:42 pm to NYNolaguy1
quote:more expensive? Don't tell me let me guess. You're under 30. It's not just a matter of less expensive. You couldn't even buy half of the shite you have access to now in 1970. What's cheaper? How about every fricking thing. You want to compare straight up while totally disregarding the difference in product or availability of product? Well hell by that measure people today live like total shite compared to people of 1850
Between daycare, student loans (let's say graduate school) and house payment that's 7/8 of total income. With two professionals working. You think it was more expensive in 1975?
Here's the reality. A person on welfare in 2017 is living better in terms of comfort and lifestyle then a rich person and 1800. So get the frick out of here with trying to compare straight up expenses while disregarding everything else
Posted on 3/13/17 at 4:43 pm to ShortyRob
quote:
What's cheaper? How about every fricking thing. You want to compare straight up while totally disregarding the difference in product or availability of product?
Was daycare cheaper?
Was healthcare cheaper?
Was a university degree cheaper?
Notice how I didn't list a single luxury item.
Posted on 3/13/17 at 4:44 pm to ShortyRob
quote:They truly do not get it. They complain that daycare is expensive in 2017, but will have us believe that they WOULD NOT be complaining in 1973 if they had to work 72 hours to buy a washing machine.
ShortyRob
Posted on 3/13/17 at 4:44 pm to NYNolaguy1
quote:
Was daycare cheaper?
Was healthcare cheaper?
Was a university degree cheaper?
Notice how I didn't list a single luxury item.
Notice how you ignore the point.
Posted on 3/13/17 at 4:45 pm to NYNolaguy1
quote:Would you prefer to get a heart procedure in 2013 or 1973?
Was daycare cheaper?
Was healthcare cheaper?
Was a university degree cheaper?
Posted on 3/13/17 at 4:46 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:
truly do not get it. They complain that daycare is expensive in 2017, but will have us believe that they WOULD NOT be complaining in 1973 if they had to work 72 hours to buy a washing machine.
It's really just pathetic how simplistic people are
Posted on 3/13/17 at 4:46 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
The middle class is getting waxed because the costs of:
housing
education
childcare
healthcare
Have all gone up in price far more than any subsequent increases in quality, and has far outpaced growth in wages.
housing
education
childcare
healthcare
Have all gone up in price far more than any subsequent increases in quality, and has far outpaced growth in wages.
Posted on 3/13/17 at 4:48 pm to kingbob
I only wish we had time machines.
I'd take 50 lower middle class people.
Send then back to 1970 and give them jobs paying 150% of the median.
Leave them there 6 months.
Give them a chance to stay if they liked.
Watch 50 people return to 2017
I'd take 50 lower middle class people.
Send then back to 1970 and give them jobs paying 150% of the median.
Leave them there 6 months.
Give them a chance to stay if they liked.
Watch 50 people return to 2017
Posted on 3/13/17 at 4:49 pm to kingbob
quote:lol. Wut
housing
education
childcare
healthcare
Have all gone up in price far more than any subsequent increases in quality, and has far outpaced growth in wages.
Posted on 3/13/17 at 4:49 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:
They complain that daycare is expensive in 2017, but will have us believe that they WOULD NOT be complaining in 1973 if they had to work 72 hours to buy a washing machine.
I have trouble buying anything now and statistically our household is north of the 92 percentile.
Those three things I listed easily take up 85% of our budget.
You can make the case for items being cheaper but in my case it doesn't matter.
Posted on 3/13/17 at 4:50 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
I think its strange that rather new technology was used in this comparison since of course these prices would drop compared to inflation over time. Id rather see something like food costs, fuel and energy costs, home buying, car buying. Maybe the graphs would be the same i dont know but your list seems very suspect. Where did you read about this?
Posted on 3/13/17 at 4:53 pm to NYNolaguy1
quote:
I have trouble buying anything now and statistically our household is north of the 92 percentile.
Those three things I listed easily take up 85% of our budget.
You can make the case for items being cheaper but in my case it doesn't matter
We've had this discussion with you before.
You shouldn't confuse what are apparently very unique circumstances to yourself with the norm. Normal people in the 92nd percentile in this country or living just fine thank you. If you live somewhere where you're in the 92nd percentile and yet spend 85% of your income on the items you mentioned move
Posted on 3/13/17 at 4:54 pm to ShortyRob
quote:
Notice how you ignore the point.
That items cost more in relation to those figures? I didn't ignore it, I just didnt think it relevant.
If I give you 10 dollars, how many $75 washing machines can you buy?
Do you care if they were $100 ten years ago?
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