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re: I'm sick of people saying the middle class is worse off than 4 decades ago.
Posted on 3/13/17 at 5:31 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
Posted on 3/13/17 at 5:31 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
Interesting... I don't see health care cost or insurance cost on there... 
0
Posted on 3/13/17 at 5:35 pm to NYNolaguy1
quote:you and your wife have graduate degrees and make barely 110% of the median household income in your area.
BTW moving has crossed my mind, though the work I do is semi specific to Urban areas (structural building engineer).
Forgetting this thread. Unless there is GREAT growth potential, move.
For comparison. My wife has no degree and I have a graduate degree. We make approximately 350% of the median in our area.
Hell two teachers with experience where I live would break 100k.
Posted on 3/13/17 at 5:36 pm to NYNolaguy1
quote:no
So now the argument is based on geography, not time
My argument is overall. You want to focus on some unique set of circumstances
Posted on 3/13/17 at 5:37 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:
Saying an average income earner in America lives a worse life today with less access to goods and services
quote:Are you moving the goalposts unconsciously or is this a deliberate attempt to conflate goods with goods and services?
Standard of living is about how much STUFF we can buy
Posted on 3/13/17 at 5:39 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
No bencoleman did not but that has little to do with the discussion. In 1970 I was 7 years old in Monterey La and was happily oblivious.
Posted on 3/13/17 at 5:39 pm to Iosh
quote:I can't speak for him.
you moving the goalposts unconsciously or is this a deliberate attempt to conflate goods with goods and services?
To me, it's simple. If you try to just compare expenses while disregarding actual life difference, you aren't being serious about the question
Posted on 3/13/17 at 5:40 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:The share obviously isn't as relevant as the direct CPI price data because it's as much about what the other stuff costs as what food costs. If food goes up 60% but health care goes up 100% then food will be a smaller share of income.
Posted on 3/13/17 at 5:40 pm to Iosh
quote:goods and services=stuff in my mind.
Are you moving the goalposts unconsciously or is this a deliberate attempt to conflate goods with goods and services?
I flat out said in my OP that you need to take into account healthcare and education, but ironically, the same people who complain about a "stagnant" middle class seem to not notice the common denominator of healthcare, education, childcare,etc.
Posted on 3/13/17 at 5:42 pm to ShortyRob
quote:
Forgetting this thread. Unless there is GREAT growth potential, move.
For both of our careers (hers more so than mine) her income ceiling is much more than mine is. And as the little ones (2) get older their daycare costs go down.
Which brings up a couple of things:
1)Is your overall point true, though exclusively in lower cost of living areas?
2)How do the other 92% get by with children in major urban areas? I'd guess subsidies from the taxpayers that pay through the nose.
3)Is there an overall opportunity cost to living in certain parts of the country?
Posted on 3/13/17 at 5:44 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:The simple libertarian explanation is unpersuasive to me since Europe is a place that exists.
but ironically, the same people who complain about a "stagnant" middle class seem to not notice the common denominator of healthcare, education, childcare, etc.
Posted on 3/13/17 at 5:46 pm to ShortyRob
quote:Yep, this ends the argument.
f you try to just compare expenses while disregarding actual life difference, you aren't being serious about the question
In 2017, you can sing to your daughter while you're 5,000 miles away using video technology, you don't have to get lost anymore thanks to GPS, and you can know everything humanity has ever known on a device that fits in the palm of your hand.
These aren't numbers.
Posted on 3/13/17 at 5:47 pm to ShortyRob
Actually the total income is much more than just what I quoted you, because you're forgetting about taxes. Those expenses were post tax.
You can do the math as to how much you'd need to cover federal and state and city income taxes, but ball park it's 40% of total income. So let's say if I need to make $90k to cover all expenses post tax in reality I need to make like $150k pre tax.
Are you suggesting that urban areas were worse to live in 1975 then?
You can do the math as to how much you'd need to cover federal and state and city income taxes, but ball park it's 40% of total income. So let's say if I need to make $90k to cover all expenses post tax in reality I need to make like $150k pre tax.
Are you suggesting that urban areas were worse to live in 1975 then?
Posted on 3/13/17 at 5:48 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
Lololol look at the snowflakes melt about fridge prices.
Posted on 3/13/17 at 5:49 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:
you can know everything humanity
Meh, you're never going to find the Lost Library at Alexandria or the garden of Babylon on your phone. Just saying.
Posted on 3/13/17 at 5:49 pm to Iosh
quote:And Europe has been as unsuccessful as America in containing healthcare cost growth.
since Europe is a place that exists.
Posted on 3/13/17 at 5:50 pm to Iosh
quote:European median income is a fraction of US median income. Hell, Italy's median income would be subpoverty level in the US
Europe is a place that exists.
Posted on 3/13/17 at 5:51 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:You're really not thinking critically enough about this stuff, and I say that as a techno-optimist. The same device that allows me to "know everything humanity has ever known" applies both to correct and incorrect knowledge. With the right curating of sources and social media I can not only know incorrect things, I can avoid any interaction with wrongthinkers who might know otherwise.
and you can know everything humanity has ever known on a device that fits in the palm of your hand
This post was edited on 3/13/17 at 5:53 pm
Posted on 3/13/17 at 5:52 pm to NYNolaguy1
quote:
Are you suggesting that urban areas were worse to live in 1975 then
I'm suggesting the same thing I've suggested this whole thread.
You could have been RICH in 1970 and not lived like an average person in 2017.
Conversely. You could live FANTASTIC today if all you did was live a 1970s lifestyle.
That's just reality.
Posted on 3/13/17 at 5:52 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:Mississippi has a higher median income than the UK, but let's not digress from the OP topic.
Hell, Italy's median income would be subpoverty level in the US
You have people in this thread saying that a 1973 middle class resident lived better and had better technology than a 2017 middle class american.
Posted on 3/13/17 at 5:53 pm to ShortyRob
quote:
If I forced the average person in the middle class today to live like an upper middle class person from 1970 they would shite their Collective pants
I can get behind this but only to a certain extent. Life is easier than it was, and tech is better than in the 70s, but I would still prefer to live in that time frame vs. now. But lol at people complaining about it being difficult being middle class in 2017 America.
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