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re: If it weren't for my Christian beliefs, I'd probably be 100% libertarian
Posted on 1/27/19 at 12:11 am to Roger Klarvin
Posted on 1/27/19 at 12:11 am to Roger Klarvin
quote:
It's very difficult to build a thriving economy and social structure if your belief system inherently ostracizes and restricts the rights of widespread segment of potential contributors to that society.
The most successful demographic in the world for the last several hundred years is also one of the most insular, possibly ever.
1
Posted on 1/27/19 at 12:24 am to MrCarton
quote:
The most successful demographic in the world for the last several hundred years is also one of the most insular, possibly ever.
Insular =/ Restricting the economic potential of your own population
Many Muslim nations, not just in practice but BY LAW, restrict the ability of women to contribute meaningfully to the society apart from child rearing. They do the same for many types of non-Muslim citizens. They hamstring themselves so to speak.
Envision a modern America where, by law, the only meaningful contributors to our economic output were males who practiced devout Christianity. No women, no social Christians, no homosexuals, no Jews, etc.
Posted on 1/27/19 at 12:29 am to MrCarton
quote:
This couldn't be more wrong.
History lays it out pretty clearly. Christianity and the Western enlightenment "grew up" together in Europe, and those civilizations gave rise to the majority of the world's economic powers today.
quote:
And lol at the played out and ridiculous argument that race = "social construct".
It's simply a product of humans preferring simplistic classification systems that our brains can quickly and easily process. We are evolved to quickly judge our surroundings as a means of survival, and grouping people into very broad categories with associated assumptions is a product of that. It's more or less our base biology played out on a large social scale.
Again, there is no objective definition of "race". Every attempt ever made to define a race ends up grouping people together with absolutely nothing in common other than a single isolated trait, usually skin color. We talk about all "blacks" as if they are equivalent, but biologically all that really matters is where they are descended from. "Black" people who are long descended from Ethiopians are as biologically different from those that descended from Nigeria as those who descended from Tunisia, and nobody would ever group a Tunisian and an Ethiopian in the same racial category.
This post was edited on 1/27/19 at 12:34 am
Posted on 1/27/19 at 1:19 am to Revelator
Just because it may be sinful to you doesn't mean it's sinful to them. That's YOUR opinion. What gives you the right to tell someone what do to do with THEIR body. If somebody wants to be a sex worker, that's their business and not yours. It doesn't affect you in any way.
Posted on 1/27/19 at 1:23 am to Revelator
quote:
Well, a libertarian would probably be ok with legalized prostitution. I could never support this because I consider it sinful.
I can’t speak for all libertarians...but I do consider myself one. I’m ok with legalized prostitution. I’m ok with legalized abortion...IF it’s moved to state’s discretion. Same as I am with prostitution. It should be a state’s right.
I’m also a Christian. Southern baptist to be exact. I originally found it hard to reconcile my beliefs with certain aspects, such as abortion. I found solace in the fact that it can be moved to state’s rights, and those state’s can be a modern day Sodom and Gomorrah.
Posted on 1/27/19 at 2:23 am to Revelator
I’m the same way. I’m a religious person but I fall into line with the same kind of political and economic beliefs that Trump and Libertarians have.
I don’t consider Trump to be a Godly man and I would never put him over my religion. I can’t stand when Republican people say things like “God bless Donald Trump! He’s the messiah! God sent him to us.” God did not send Donald Trump to us. He’s too sexually immoral and is not a religious person at all. He’s all about himself and a lot of Libertarians are but politically and economically I agree with them almost 100%
I don’t consider Trump to be a Godly man and I would never put him over my religion. I can’t stand when Republican people say things like “God bless Donald Trump! He’s the messiah! God sent him to us.” God did not send Donald Trump to us. He’s too sexually immoral and is not a religious person at all. He’s all about himself and a lot of Libertarians are but politically and economically I agree with them almost 100%
Posted on 1/27/19 at 2:41 am to Revelator
quote:
legalized prostitution. I could never support this because I consider it sinful.
Jesus said render that unto Caesar that which is Caesar's...
Fair to say, though, I don't mind laws that protect the weak...
Prostitution may be a sin, but as described in the Leviticus verses, Joe's Crabshack is sinful...so...?
I try not to get wrapped around the axel on freedoms that don't hurt others
Posted on 1/27/19 at 5:20 am to IceTiger
quote:
Prostitution may be a sin, but as described in the Leviticus verses, Joe's Crabshack is sinful...so...?
The OT laws on cleanliness went out the window when Peter had the vision from God... So it's a false comparison.
Posted on 1/27/19 at 5:23 am to sta4ever
quote:
don’t consider Trump to be a Godly man and I would never put him over my religion. I can’t stand when Republican people say things like “God bless Donald Trump! He’s the messiah! God sent him to us.”
Trump as a messiah? What kind of Christians are you hanging with? Never heard that once from the Christian community. I have heard people thankful he is President on account of the opportunity to select Supreme Court justices.
Posted on 1/27/19 at 5:43 am to Roger Klarvin
quote:
The French revolution disintegrated into mass chaos and violence because it was really the only successful revolution of a major world power in history to that point led by the lowest classes of society. Once they overthrew the monarchy, they had no idea what to do with themselves because the movement lacked educated political and social leadership. The American revolution in contrast was led by the most affluent and educated members of it's society who then set up a political system that specifically built in protections from the uneducated poor making compromising errors.
Disagree on that count Klarvin. In a sense the Civil Rights movement was an underclass movement that did not descend into violence. It was successful and peaceful in it's aims and it followed the example of Jesus and His disciples.
And the American Revolution were at best what the British would consider middle class with plenty of lower class people who were in positions of prominence during the revolution.
Again the French Revolution unmoored itself from any religious tradition and was staunchly rationalist as any movement in history. To move the goalpost to say "only rationalist movements with leading of upper class leadership" will succeed seems very specific without any basis in underlying reason.
Posted on 1/27/19 at 6:10 am to Roger Klarvin
quote:
The USSR and communist China carried out genocide apart from religious premises, so no.
They were atheist causes with a body count approaching 50-100 million. Because they were atheist causes there was no moral restraint on them.
quote:
That's really immaterial to this discussion
To say that the beliefs and teachings of the leaders of both faiths is immaterial to the way that followers of those religions act doesn't logically follow.
By the way Klarvin, I appreciate the overall civil tone and sticking to the arguments throughout this back and forth.
Posted on 1/27/19 at 6:38 am to Revelator
There was a website a while back (can't remember the name) that allowed you to answer a series of questions on beliefs and values and it would point to you as to whether you were: Liberal, Libertarian, conservative, green party etc... Basically, at the end it said I most resembled the party line of Gary Johnson over Trump. If Gary wasn't such an idiot on foreign affairs I maybe would have voted for him but I am so glad I voted for the magnificent orange bastard. For all of his flaws he's turned out to be a helluva President. If he builds that wall he will win in a 2020 in a landslide IMO.
Posted on 1/27/19 at 6:52 am to Revelator
The biggest issue I have with libertarians are:
1. For their philosophy to succeed, like the constitution, the ruled must be a moral and religious people who are willing to internalize policing themselves. We are no longer that people.
2.The absolute dedication to the international free movement of capital and people with a complete disregard to differences in language, culture, religion, etc. That had done much to harm the world.
1. For their philosophy to succeed, like the constitution, the ruled must be a moral and religious people who are willing to internalize policing themselves. We are no longer that people.
2.The absolute dedication to the international free movement of capital and people with a complete disregard to differences in language, culture, religion, etc. That had done much to harm the world.
Posted on 1/27/19 at 7:42 am to Revelator
quote:
Well, a libertarian would probably be ok with legalized prostitution. I could never support this because I consider it sinful.
not wanting something made illegal by a non-deity shouldn't affect your thoughts about sinning
Posted on 1/27/19 at 8:14 am to joshnorris14
quote:
I am against prostitution and drug use.
So am I, but in Luke 7:36-50 a prostitute anointed Jesus' feet and he forgave her of her sins.
Hate the sin, love the sinner.
Posted on 1/27/19 at 8:45 am to Revelator
I’ve always found it interesting which sins religious people want criminalized. They cover lust based sins with zeal. Gluttony is a mixed bag (criminalize some narcotics but not all, and don’t even think of criminalizing over eating). Wrath, greed, sloth, envy, and pride are given free passes unless the actions violate the NAP (theft, battery, etc).
It makes one wonder about the underlying purpose of such spotty advocacy. If the desire to legislate is truly based on stamping out sin, why are so many sins seemingly ignored by so many?
It makes one wonder about the underlying purpose of such spotty advocacy. If the desire to legislate is truly based on stamping out sin, why are so many sins seemingly ignored by so many?
Posted on 1/27/19 at 8:48 am to Revelator
quote:
Well, a libertarian would probably be ok with legalized prostitution. I could never support this because I consider it sinful.
Where is prostitution covered in the bible?
Posted on 1/27/19 at 8:52 am to Zach
The parts where the the Philistines chide the Savior for hanging out with them. 
Posted on 1/27/19 at 10:59 am to GeauxPhillies26
quote:
Just because it may be sinful to you doesn't mean it's sinful to them. That's YOUR opinion. What gives you the right to tell someone what do to do with THEIR body. If somebody wants to be a sex worker, that's their business and not yours. It doesn't affect you in any way.
Do you watch the news or follow politics? Do you see the things that progressives are trying to pass on me?
A mandate to buy healthcare was passed on me without my consent. Having to call men with penises a woman, is being forced on all of us.
Progressives are constantly trying to force their will on me, but if I take a position and advocate for it, I'm the one trying to force my morals on the society.
Wake up man, liberals are demanding that their morals will be forced on all of us.
This post was edited on 1/27/19 at 11:03 am
Posted on 1/27/19 at 11:35 am to CivilTiger83
quote:
OT laws on cleanliness went out the window when Peter had the vision from God
Jesus washed away all sin so there's that, then there's Jesus saying this about Leviticus:
quote:
Until Heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass away from the law, until all is accomplished
So either all is accomplished...or it isn't...
Maybe Peter denied Christ 4 times...
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