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re: If it weren't for my Christian beliefs, I'd probably be 100% libertarian
Posted on 1/26/19 at 6:58 pm to Revelator
Posted on 1/26/19 at 6:58 pm to Revelator
Don't worry, libertarianism is just a way to divide and conquer. Individuals are far easier for marxist to beat than if the right was to form a collective themselves.
0
Posted on 1/26/19 at 6:58 pm to AggieHank86
quote:
any think that libertarians are definitionally libertines, but there is a significant difference between affirmatively approving of a behavior and thinking that government has no right to prohibit it.
it would be a very strange world if I was allowed to ban everything that I don't like. Thank goodness no one has given me that power. Not that I want it
Posted on 1/26/19 at 7:02 pm to Revelator
quote:If you are willing to impose your morality upon those whose morality differs from yours, you are not remotely a libertarian.
I could never vote for a Libertarian candidate that was pro choice no matter if I agreed with him on everything else. My conscience would not allow it.
Posted on 1/26/19 at 7:04 pm to AggieHank86
quote:
If you are willing to impose your morality upon those whose morality differs from yours
Well. That's taking it a bridge too far. I mean there a lot of people's moralities that disagree with mine that I am okay with banning although in each case it's because they are harming someone else in some way
Posted on 1/26/19 at 7:06 pm to stuntman
quote:But the debate is about whether the NAP applies to an embryo or fetus.
Definitely a fair point, Rev. Abortion is a big debate w/in libertarian circles. I believe it's an innocent human life and worth protecting....and I'm almost an Ancap.
Most libertarians who fall into your group will oppose abortion PERSONALLY, but would not impose their views upon others through the coercive power of government.
Posted on 1/26/19 at 7:07 pm to Revelator
quote:
Anyone else in this boat?
Sort of, back when I still believed in those stories.
Posted on 1/26/19 at 7:08 pm to AggieHank86
quote:
But the debate is about whether the NAP applies to an embryo or fetus
I believe that at some point it does.
of course the bottom line is whenever somebody tries to use abortion as the example of why I'm not really libertarian they just out themselves as being retarded and unwilling to acknowledge that it's possible to be libertarian and feel like defending the baby also
Posted on 1/26/19 at 7:11 pm to gthog61
quote:Most libertarians agree with you, which is why about 2/3 of us vote GOP.
I am conservative and non-religious and find the libertarian party as now constituted a waste of time.
Of course, you are also the first person in this thread to focus upon the LPA, as opposed to libertarian ideology more generally.
Posted on 1/26/19 at 7:17 pm to ShortyRob
quote:Fair enough, but that concept is so central to libertarian thought that I considered it implicit.
there a lot of people's moralities that disagree with mine that I am okay with banning although in each case it's because they are harming someone else in some way
Posted on 1/26/19 at 8:08 pm to AggieHank86
quote:
If you are willing to impose your morality upon those whose morality differs from yours, you are not remotely a libertarian.
Me refusing to vote for a pro choice candidate is not forcing my morality on anyone.
Posted on 1/26/19 at 8:56 pm to ShortyRob
Shorty Rob and Rev
I don’t believe in abortion precisely bc I’m
a Libertarian(ish).
I believe your right to behave in any way you choose can be limited only by a sense of right and wrong. I believe your right to behave how you want ceases to exist the minute it infringes on another person’s right to live the way he wants to live. Because abortion takes a human life, I don’t think we don’t have the legal right to “abortion.”
I guess the answer to whether it’s acceptanle or not depends on the answer to the question; At what point does a person become a person? I err on the side of conception as the answer because we can never really know that for sure. However, I believe conception is when we get a soul.
Until we get an affirmative proof to the contrary, I’m willing to take that one on faith.
I don’t believe in abortion precisely bc I’m
a Libertarian(ish).
I believe your right to behave in any way you choose can be limited only by a sense of right and wrong. I believe your right to behave how you want ceases to exist the minute it infringes on another person’s right to live the way he wants to live. Because abortion takes a human life, I don’t think we don’t have the legal right to “abortion.”
I guess the answer to whether it’s acceptanle or not depends on the answer to the question; At what point does a person become a person? I err on the side of conception as the answer because we can never really know that for sure. However, I believe conception is when we get a soul.
Until we get an affirmative proof to the contrary, I’m willing to take that one on faith.
Posted on 1/26/19 at 9:01 pm to Revelator
What Christian beliefs have held you to be Republican?
Posted on 1/26/19 at 9:09 pm to Revelator
No. I don't really think of it in those terms as much as libertarianism isn't really a coherent political or ethical "system" or even non-system.
I say I err on the side of allowing market forces to work, within a framework of a hard-to-amend written legal system with separation of powers running in multi dimensions.
There are rights that are too fragile, fleeting and ephemeral, and yet inalienable and and fundamental to wait for the market to reach an end, as equitable as it may be years from now. That doesn't mean it's just to wait.
Eta: I think I just reached your conclusion with that last point, as my (and all of western civ's) sense of justice is very much tied to Christianity.
I say I err on the side of allowing market forces to work, within a framework of a hard-to-amend written legal system with separation of powers running in multi dimensions.
There are rights that are too fragile, fleeting and ephemeral, and yet inalienable and and fundamental to wait for the market to reach an end, as equitable as it may be years from now. That doesn't mean it's just to wait.
Eta: I think I just reached your conclusion with that last point, as my (and all of western civ's) sense of justice is very much tied to Christianity.
This post was edited on 1/26/19 at 10:00 pm
Posted on 1/26/19 at 9:16 pm to Revelator
Paraphrasing
If you had no heart you would base your decisions on some mental idea.
Lost Christians do not experience love for the divine nor do they feel loved by god or Christ or mother Mary.
If you had no heart you would base your decisions on some mental idea.
Lost Christians do not experience love for the divine nor do they feel loved by god or Christ or mother Mary.
Posted on 1/26/19 at 9:20 pm to Ebbandflow
quote:
What Christian beliefs have held you to be Republican?
British and US constitutions are based on Biblical understanding and concepts. Men like John Fortescue who developed much of the original thought from the British on good governence that was later copied by the US founders.
Republicans believe that to still be a good model. Democrats believe in the tyranny of the state for the greater good.
Libertarians believe that they can have an amoral or hedonistic society that will still function well. Morality in the public and private sphere is of no importance to them.
Posted on 1/26/19 at 9:44 pm to CivilTiger83
quote:
British and US constitutions are based on Biblical understanding and concepts. Men like John Fortescue who developed much of the original thought from the British on good governence that was later copied by the US founders.
Republicans believe that to still be a good model. Democrats believe in the tyranny of the state for the greater good.
Libertarians believe that they can have an amoral or hedonistic society that will still function well. Morality in the public and private sphere is of no importance to them.
Will Republicans in the 80s overthrew several small countries and installed puppet regimes, trained Osama Bin Laden, put Saddam Hussein in power, and failed to talk about AIDS or fund it because it was taboo because of morals.
Republicans in the early 2000s we're all for marching our entire military over to the Middle East and helping to obtain a death toll of over 600,000 people. The same Republicans also used governance to take away the rights of every American citizen what's the Patriot Act. I can still remember idiot conservatives on the news saying that if you weren't a terrorist you had nothing to worry about.
And yet still modern-day conservatives who are terrified that we will be flooded with brown people and that white people will become minorities. Republicans that want to suck the Big D of tyrannical conglomerates and pretend like they're doing something meaningful.
Pardon me if I'm not exactly sure which morals that you believe the Republican Party stands for
Posted on 1/26/19 at 9:50 pm to Ebbandflow
So you hate on Repubs for not supporting AIDs but ignore that George W was the biggest supporter of funding for AIDs? Seems inconsistent.
I didn't say the Republicans are all good moral people. I am saying that the party rests on the idea that the Biblical tradition that founded our Constitution is a good one. Modern Dems are mostly opposed to that idea... Many of them hostile to any form of Judeo-Christian tradition.
I didn't say the Republicans are all good moral people. I am saying that the party rests on the idea that the Biblical tradition that founded our Constitution is a good one. Modern Dems are mostly opposed to that idea... Many of them hostile to any form of Judeo-Christian tradition.
Posted on 1/26/19 at 9:50 pm to Revelator
quote:
Well, a libertarian would probably be ok with legalized prostitution. I could never support this because I consider it sinful.
You don’t have to participate and you don’t own other people’s bodies.
Posted on 1/26/19 at 9:51 pm to joshnorris14
quote:
You need more Hoppe in your life. There would be no drugs, prostitution, or homosexuality in a libertarian society
You’d have to be on drugs to believe that.
Posted on 1/26/19 at 9:52 pm to CivilTiger83
quote:
So you hate on Repubs for not supporting AIDs but ignore that George W was the biggest supporter of funding for AIDs? Seems inconsistent.
No but instead he was very withholding of stem cell treatment.
quote:
didn't say the Republicans are all good moral people
Now you're just being a hypocrite
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