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re: I am a conservative who believes the job of teaching is under paid
Posted on 6/20/19 at 1:19 pm to Jjdoc
Posted on 6/20/19 at 1:19 pm to Jjdoc
quote:This is simply false and you've fallen victim to leftist think on this. Here's why.
I am a conservative who believes the job of teaching is under paid
Teachers aren't underpaid. SOME teachers are underpaid.
Salary is normally driven by what it takes to hire someone of the quality you desire to hire. Alas, this would require different pay for different teaching specialties in K-12 and the teacher's unions would sooner gouge every teacher's eyes out before they allowed it.
Salaries for Calculus teachers are substandard. Salaries for Middle school art teachers are not.
4
Posted on 6/20/19 at 1:25 pm to ShortyRob
In a lot of parts of this country with higher COL, teacher salaries aren't enough to afford a 1 BR apartment. Why would a quality college graduate become a teacher? There is no incentive other than "save the children"
This post was edited on 6/20/19 at 1:25 pm
Posted on 6/20/19 at 1:29 pm to ShortyRob
quote:
This is simply false and you've fallen victim to leftist think on this. Here's why.
Teachers aren't underpaid. SOME teachers are underpaid.
That may very well be a better/more accurate assessment.
Posted on 6/20/19 at 1:31 pm to tduecen
quote:
is a myth that teachers can't be fired... Many can and do get fired and then find jobs in other areas because we have a shortage of qualified applicants in the state
False. Only about 1 in 500 tenured teachers are fired for poor performance.
Posted on 6/20/19 at 1:31 pm to pizzatiger
quote:
In a lot of parts of this country with higher COL, teacher salaries aren't enough to afford a 1 BR apartment.
There is no chance this is the case "in a lot of parts of this country."
Posted on 6/20/19 at 1:31 pm to tduecen
quote:
You left out
- class sizes
No.. I talked about it in the thread. I think graduating 50 is enough. We need to reverse the consolidation process.
Posted on 6/20/19 at 1:32 pm to Walter Kovacs
that's a farce that they have far more options than most of us. Do you work at mcdonald's or something?
Bottom line is teacher's in Mississippi are underpaid. They haven't kept up with inflation. Their benefits are shite, to argue otherwise means you know exactly zero teachers. I know plenty and all of them are sacrificing financially because they do in fact care about kids. This may not be the case everywhere which is kinda why it is bad to paint all teachers with the same brush. It varies state to state and municipality to municipality.
Bottom line is teacher's in Mississippi are underpaid. They haven't kept up with inflation. Their benefits are shite, to argue otherwise means you know exactly zero teachers. I know plenty and all of them are sacrificing financially because they do in fact care about kids. This may not be the case everywhere which is kinda why it is bad to paint all teachers with the same brush. It varies state to state and municipality to municipality.
Posted on 6/20/19 at 1:36 pm to volod
quote:
You probably know all of these warnings, but it's fair to recite them.
* People aren't always willing to wait it out if they believe their skills are worth more. Varies by how long they have to wait.
* What leverage does your business have? Are you located in a competitive area or are you a big fish in a small pond?
Our primary offices are Dallas and Houston. Fairly competitive markets.
How long depends on the person to a degree. We have a reputation of screening the shite heads out and keeping great people.
We are a small fish in a big pond, but we do offer a lot of self determination for the right fit.
Posted on 6/20/19 at 1:37 pm to yatesdog38
quote:SOME Mississippi teachers are underpaid.
Bottom line is teacher's in Mississippi are underpaid.
$40,609 in Mississippi is damned good money for a middle school art teacher. Median FAMILY income in Miss is $56K. Two married Middle School art teachers would make over 80K! YEAR ONE!
Now. is $40K good enough money to find highly qualified Math teachers? Meh. Probably not.
Posted on 6/20/19 at 1:43 pm to Jjdoc
The ENTIRE teacher quality problem can be solved with 2 simple policy changes.
1. Allow differential pay so that when we find we are short Calculus teachers, we don't have to give EVERY frickING TEACHER a raise in order to get more Calculus teachers.
2. Allow people to become teachers without having an "Education" degree.
Then, school districts can raise salaries in a TARGETED manner without bankrupting the fricking school district by paying art teachers 3x what they could make doing anything else. AND, those districts can stop acting like it makes sense that an "Education" degree somehow is a magic pill that tells us you CAN teach.
1. Allow differential pay so that when we find we are short Calculus teachers, we don't have to give EVERY frickING TEACHER a raise in order to get more Calculus teachers.
2. Allow people to become teachers without having an "Education" degree.
Then, school districts can raise salaries in a TARGETED manner without bankrupting the fricking school district by paying art teachers 3x what they could make doing anything else. AND, those districts can stop acting like it makes sense that an "Education" degree somehow is a magic pill that tells us you CAN teach.
Posted on 6/20/19 at 1:45 pm to ShortyRob
Education colleges would lose their monopoly on teaching. And we’d find out that most great teachers just have “it” which is nothing that is imparted in an education college.
Posted on 6/20/19 at 1:49 pm to the808bass
quote:Professional licenses are quite often nothing more than tools to artificially deflate the potential workforce and then use lack of availability as an argument for raises.
Education colleges would lose their monopoly on teaching. And we’d find out that most great teachers just have “it” which is nothing that is imparted in an education college.
I always hear the same silly retort. "Just because you're educated in Math doesn't mean you can teach".
Well no shite. And, just because you are "Educated in Education" doesn't mean you can teach either. There is ZERO empirical evidence that an Education degree increases one's odds of being good at teaching. If there were, then Universities would demand that their professors have teaching degrees.
Posted on 6/20/19 at 1:50 pm to ShortyRob
quote:
SOME Mississippi teachers are underpaid.
$40,609 in Mississippi is damned good money for a middle school art teacher. Median FAMILY income in Miss is $56K. Two married Middle School art teachers would make over 80K! YEAR ONE!
Now. is $40K good enough money to find highly qualified Math teachers? Meh. Probably not.
This is what the "teachers are underpaid crowd" will never admit. There are teachers who are far OVERPAID. Like I've said previously, Art, Music, English, and Foreign Language teachers are the most egregious. The teaching positions where we need to pay more will suffer because we can't separate them from the subjects we're overpaying.
This post was edited on 6/20/19 at 1:50 pm
Posted on 6/20/19 at 1:51 pm to BigJim
quote:
Have seen no evidence of this. At least in LA tenure makes firing so arduous a process that no one tries (unless it is a really outrageous problem like stealing or sleeping with a student). No one gets fired for just not being a good enough teacher.
I respect you as a poster, so I'm going to assume that you just don't have much experience in this area.
Firing a good teacher means you have to have someone in the wings to take their job. In many places, there isn't really anyone on the bench, and few people show up to teacher fairs. If that's the case, then firing a teacher just means a lot more work for the administration, and the very real possibility that it's going to be harder to fill that job. Including the fact that they might need to start off the year with sub teachers to fill that spot.
In the "better" school districts where there is a line of teachers waiting to get a job, you do see more performance related firings. Of course, being government, you have to kill a few trees to get the documentation in the file. But if you have a principal who gives a crap, they will do it.
More and more school systems are starting to hold principals responsible, and the principals are in turn starting to hold the teachers responsible.
Posted on 6/20/19 at 1:53 pm to ShortyRob
quote:
This is simply false and you've fallen victim to leftist think on this. Here's why.
It's his opinion that teachers are underpaid.
An opinion can not be false. It is not a fact, it is an opinion.
You can have a different opinion than he does, which is fine.
quote:
Salaries for Calculus teachers are substandard. Salaries for Middle school art teachers are not.
A market economy, which you seem to push one paragraph above, would make this determination.
Posted on 6/20/19 at 1:54 pm to the808bass
quote:
False. Only about 1 in 500 tenured teachers are fired for poor performance.
Link?
Posted on 6/20/19 at 1:54 pm to LSUFanHouston
quote:
In the "better" school districts where there is a line of teachers waiting to get a job, you do see more performance related firings. Of course, being government, you have to kill a few trees to get the documentation in the file. But if you have a principal who gives a crap, they will do it.
Can confirm. St tammary parish has the best schools in the state for the most part. Teachers do get fired. Lots more waiting to get a job there. It's competitive. Also, solid pay for the COL.
If you fired all of the bad teachers in other parts of the state, you'd have no teachers. They deserve to be fired but whatcha gonna do. Nobody else wants the job.
This post was edited on 6/20/19 at 1:56 pm
Posted on 6/20/19 at 1:56 pm to ShortyRob
quote:
Median FAMILY income in Miss is $56K. Two married Middle School art teachers would make over 80K! YEAR ONE!
What is median family income in Miss with both adults having college degrees? Let's compare apples to apples.
Posted on 6/20/19 at 1:57 pm to LSUFanHouston
quote:
What is median family income in Miss with both adults having college degrees? Let's compare apples to apples.
Are we gonna adjust the teachers salary to reflect 12 months of work?
Posted on 6/20/19 at 1:58 pm to ShortyRob
quote:
Salary is normally driven by what it takes to hire someone of the quality you desire to hire. Alas, this would require different pay for different teaching specialties in K-12 and the teacher's unions would sooner gouge every teacher's eyes out before they allowed it.
Salaries for Calculus teachers are substandard. Salaries for Middle school art teachers are not.
FWIW at most private schools there isn't a huge gap in pay between different teachers. At the schools I'm familiar with, math and english get a few more dollars because they have to grade more. That's about it. The rest is based on experience and education level, just like publics.
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