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Posted on 7/20/26 at 6:12 pm to 4cubbies
Sorry if I’m repeating anyone else’s point. I’m not reading 4 pages of comments. Im curious if the OP has ever had even the most basic “Polly-Sigh” course. Just take a look at how the constitution is framed. The founders weren’t all that concerned with delivering justice. They were far more worried about preventing, or providing a remedy to, INJUSTICE. If you’re curious about how they defined injustice, take a look at the declaration and the constitution - most certainly the Bill of Rights, but also the constitutional articles as well. These documents provide a laundry list of things they were worried about.
Posted on 7/20/26 at 6:33 pm to soonerinlOUisiana
quote:
The founders weren’t all that concerned with delivering justice. They were far more worried about preventing, or providing a remedy to, INJUSTICE
Wouldn’t preventing injustice still be in the interest of promoting justice though? Seems like different sides of the same coin.
quote:
These documents provide a laundry list of things they were worried about.
I’m curious what they would think justice is as it relates to pubic education or redistricting or Citizens United.
This post was edited on 7/20/26 at 9:41 pm
Posted on 7/20/26 at 6:34 pm to 4cubbies
Well, for one, when they said things like “Equal and exact justice to all men,” they did specifically mean dudes, exclusively. 
Posted on 7/20/26 at 6:34 pm to stuntman
quote:
The way I look at justice is just the upholding of individual liberty, that you own yourself, which I have pretty hard core views on. For example, I see the institution of government itself as having a foundation of pure injustice. It's based on coercion, theft, and the idea that the members of government have more "rights" than the rest of us.
Would justice look like no public institutions according to this framework? No libraries, parks, public schools, etc.
Posted on 7/20/26 at 6:38 pm to 4cubbies
quote:
How did the framers understand or define justice?
Umm, The Constitution.
What do I win?
Posted on 7/20/26 at 6:43 pm to 4cubbies
quote:
Wouldn’t preventing injustice still be in the interest of promoting justice though? Seems like different sides of the same coin.
Still, the answer is right there in the founding documents. I’m not going to write a treatise using my index finger and an iPhone. Read the documents.
This post was edited on 7/20/26 at 6:51 pm
Posted on 7/20/26 at 6:47 pm to 4cubbies
Nothing?
quote:
Let’s chalk this up to another time 4cubbies is WRONG. Will she admit it? Will she respond? We all know the answer, no.
This post was edited on 7/20/26 at 6:49 pm
Posted on 7/20/26 at 7:03 pm to 4cubbies
Mother Nature is ‘Just’ based on the principle of survival of the fit(est). Very efficient mechanism. There is no Moral criteria for ‘Fit’.
God’s ’Justice’ is based on the choice of a sovereign Entity. Merit as it were, but with Jesus’ Grace/Mercy factored in as God/Jesus knows the heart. Assuming one embraces Jesus and relinquishes sovereignty to God, through Jesus, via the Holy Spirit. No relinquish = no Grace, or “Grace is measured “. One pays one’s Karma.
Secularist believe that it’s the luck of the draw as to what conditions an individual is born into in this life. They label it “life’s lottery “ as if it were just blind luck, good and bad relatively so; and as such a form of ‘injustice’ which must be mitigated if a higher moral standard is to be applied.
God’s Children believe that “the hairs in your head are numbered “ and that NOTHING happens outside of the Just Will of God. Especially who and where people are born into. The obvious pink elephant in this room is why God would create “one to honor, and one to dishonor “. And that has been answered above. Albeit it’s the current theological norm to discount any reference or basis for judgement on a previous existence. To each their own beliefs. Either it works or doubt fills the gap.
Careful Cubs,”there is a way that seemeth right unto man but the end thereof is destruction “. Mercy, but NOT without Qualifiers. Herding cats won’t fly. But they will have to try.
God’s ’Justice’ is based on the choice of a sovereign Entity. Merit as it were, but with Jesus’ Grace/Mercy factored in as God/Jesus knows the heart. Assuming one embraces Jesus and relinquishes sovereignty to God, through Jesus, via the Holy Spirit. No relinquish = no Grace, or “Grace is measured “. One pays one’s Karma.
Secularist believe that it’s the luck of the draw as to what conditions an individual is born into in this life. They label it “life’s lottery “ as if it were just blind luck, good and bad relatively so; and as such a form of ‘injustice’ which must be mitigated if a higher moral standard is to be applied.
God’s Children believe that “the hairs in your head are numbered “ and that NOTHING happens outside of the Just Will of God. Especially who and where people are born into. The obvious pink elephant in this room is why God would create “one to honor, and one to dishonor “. And that has been answered above. Albeit it’s the current theological norm to discount any reference or basis for judgement on a previous existence. To each their own beliefs. Either it works or doubt fills the gap.
Careful Cubs,”there is a way that seemeth right unto man but the end thereof is destruction “. Mercy, but NOT without Qualifiers. Herding cats won’t fly. But they will have to try.
Posted on 7/20/26 at 7:13 pm to 4cubbies
I think that this is where the misunderstanding may be. The intention of the constitution.
This foundational document for our country is not to establish justice.
It is to tell a government what its rules are, what the rights of the people are.
Rules don't have justice. Some of them, are extremely UN just. And that's what the constitution is written for. To tell a government that it cannot treat its people unjustly. Or they have the right to fight back if it does.
The constitution is to maintain freedom and liberty. Justice is left up to the laws of the individual states (at the time of the Founding.)
This foundational document for our country is not to establish justice.
It is to tell a government what its rules are, what the rights of the people are.
Rules don't have justice. Some of them, are extremely UN just. And that's what the constitution is written for. To tell a government that it cannot treat its people unjustly. Or they have the right to fight back if it does.
The constitution is to maintain freedom and liberty. Justice is left up to the laws of the individual states (at the time of the Founding.)
Posted on 7/20/26 at 7:14 pm to 4cubbies
The federalist papers spell out a lot of what the founders thought.
Posted on 7/20/26 at 7:16 pm to 4cubbies
Evil nasty person
Posted on 7/20/26 at 7:25 pm to 4cubbies
Don't know. Depends on the individuals in the culture.
My guess it that here in America, yep, there's be private libraries, parks, schools, ect...
That's another gripe I have about government now that you mention it.
Because of all these government institutions, people have far less incentives to care about their neighbors. "Well, government should take care of x, so I can pretend to care about it, but do nothing about it myself". Not saying you, I'm just saying that's the mindset that easily creeps in when someone else is "responsible".
Rothbard had a great quote about this; "No action can be virtuous unless it's freely chosen". I'm sure you've seen all over society people who believe it's "virtue" to have "charity" through government force. That's how upside down government has people looking at society.
ETA; Another good topic.
My guess it that here in America, yep, there's be private libraries, parks, schools, ect...
That's another gripe I have about government now that you mention it.
Because of all these government institutions, people have far less incentives to care about their neighbors. "Well, government should take care of x, so I can pretend to care about it, but do nothing about it myself". Not saying you, I'm just saying that's the mindset that easily creeps in when someone else is "responsible".
Rothbard had a great quote about this; "No action can be virtuous unless it's freely chosen". I'm sure you've seen all over society people who believe it's "virtue" to have "charity" through government force. That's how upside down government has people looking at society.
ETA; Another good topic.
This post was edited on 7/20/26 at 7:27 pm
Posted on 7/20/26 at 7:39 pm to UtahCajun
quote:
With like 10 wives!!!!
My dream!
Lmk when you’re ready to found a colony. I’ve been in the market for a sister wife since I got married.
Posted on 7/20/26 at 7:42 pm to 4cubbies
You have a fricking house maid.
Lazy simply fricking lazy
Lazy simply fricking lazy
Posted on 7/20/26 at 7:42 pm to RCDfan1950
God put us here to be His hands and feet. We can’t just passively let life happen without trying to influence the conditions marginalized people are subjected to.
Posted on 7/20/26 at 7:43 pm to 4cubbies
Lol like your marginalized under paid maid?
fricking clown
fricking clown
Posted on 7/20/26 at 7:48 pm to Wolfwireless
quote:
I think that this is where the misunderstanding may be. The intention of the constitution. This foundational document for our country is not to establish justice. It is to tell a government what its rules are, what the rights of the people are.
I was attempting to extrapolate the philosophies of the founders into modern contexts. Not sure that can reasonably be done.
Posted on 7/20/26 at 7:49 pm to 4cubbies
You rarely are reasonable so no shite
This post was edited on 7/20/26 at 7:51 pm
Posted on 7/20/26 at 7:51 pm to 4cubbies
quote:
was attempting to extrapolate the philosophies of the founders into modern contexts. Not sure that can reasonably be done.
Have you looked at what the Church has written on natural law? The philosophy?
Have you read Rerum novarum? In the topics of socialism/communism?
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