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re: Have heard many say no evidence of Hamas involvement in 3 teens' deaths
Posted on 8/5/14 at 3:58 pm to NHTIGER
Posted on 8/5/14 at 3:58 pm to NHTIGER
You do understand, don't you, that regardless of the truth or not of this Israeli arrest that it doesn't necessarily mean this was a Hamas-approved operation?
The renegade murders of three Israelis on Palestinian land does not justify the subsequent Israeli rampage.
The renegade murders of three Israelis on Palestinian land does not justify the subsequent Israeli rampage.
4
Posted on 8/5/14 at 4:04 pm to trackfan
quote:
but this whole thing is atypical of Hamas' modus operandi.
And 9/11 was atypical of al Qaeda's operandi. As was the Cole bombing. The bombing of the barracks in Beirut wasn't really typical of the Islamic nationalist groups then. There's really no good argument that says "this terror group has never really done something like this so it's not them."
Posted on 8/5/14 at 4:06 pm to Rex
quote:
The renegade murders of three Israelis on Palestinian land does not justify the subsequent Israeli rampage.
War needs no justification and will almost always fail to meet any moral justification for the modern contemplative person.
Posted on 8/5/14 at 4:08 pm to Rex
It would certainly give much more legitimacy to the Israeli government rounding up those Hamas members and give less legitimacy to the Hamas response if they were in fact involved.
I'm skeptical because of the convenience of the timing. I'm also curious to know how far the up the organization was behind it. Let the facts present themselves more before jumping to any hard conclusions.
I'm skeptical because of the convenience of the timing. I'm also curious to know how far the up the organization was behind it. Let the facts present themselves more before jumping to any hard conclusions.
Posted on 8/5/14 at 4:10 pm to trackfan
quote:
I hadn't heard those specifics of the makeup of the folks Israel arrested. Do you have a link?
I assume you will agree that Aljazeera is not part of the pro-Irael press.
July 26, 2014
"Arrests included Palestinian parliament speaker and [Hamas member Aziz Dweik] as well as at least 60 Palestinians who were released from prison based on the prisoners swap agreement which both parties agreed to."
LINK
Haaretz is a Jewish news source, but a very liberal one that has been anti-Netanyahu for years. They publish many anti-war and anti-government and anti-government stories monthly.
"Hamas is thought to be willing to drop its demand for the release of nearly 60 Hamas members who were rearrested in recent weeks after being freed in the 2011 prisoner exchange for Gilad Shalit. In any case, six of them have been freed for legal reasons, and Israel might gradually release others without admitting that this was part of a cease-fire deal. "
LINK
How about The Guardian?
"Palestinians freed in 2011 Gilad Shalit prisoner-swap back in custody
Israel says re-arrest of more than 50 former prisoners during search for missing teens sent 'important message' to Hamas
LINK
And there's the aggressively anti-Israel Al-Monitor:
"Israelis made threats against Hamas and started a widespread arrest campaign netting more than 200 Hamas members, of different levels, in the West Bank. Those arrested include members of the Palestinian Legislative Council, former ministers, university professors, along with field operatives and more than 50 former Palestinian prisoners who were recently released in the prisoner exchange deal with Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit.
LINK
The list of links goes on...and on...and on.
Posted on 8/5/14 at 4:13 pm to Rex
quote:
You do understand, don't you, that regardless of the truth or not of this Israeli arrest that it doesn't necessarily mean this was a Hamas-approved operation?
The renegade murders of three Israelis on Palestinian land does not justify the subsequent Israeli rampage.
Also keep in mind that the three teens were killed in the West Bank, not Gaza.
Posted on 8/5/14 at 4:14 pm to NHTIGER
Thanks NHTIGER.
Posted on 8/5/14 at 4:16 pm to trackfan
quote:
Also keep in mind that the three teens were killed in the West Bank, not Gaza.
You're playing a shell game. If it's definitively proven Hamas, at the highest level, did orchestrate the kidnapping and murder of the teens, you will still believe Israel's attack was illegitimate.
Posted on 8/5/14 at 4:20 pm to NHTIGER
Well, whatever the case may be - Israel CLEARLY has the high ground. Three Israelis killed is justification for HUNDREDS of Palestinian kids getting killed - because their three were killed first.
Please, tell me you can smell my sarcasm.
Please, tell me you can smell my sarcasm.
Posted on 8/5/14 at 4:23 pm to Geauxrilla Ballz
quote:
Well, whatever the case may be - Israel CLEARLY has the high ground. Three Israelis killed is justification for HUNDREDS of Palestinian kids getting killed - because their three were killed first.
Thanks for demonstrating that Sowell's opinion piece was on point.
Posted on 8/5/14 at 4:25 pm to Rex
quote:
The renegade murders of three Israelis on Palestinian land does not justify the subsequent Israeli rampage.
Link to claims that it does?
Posted on 8/5/14 at 4:30 pm to Geauxrilla Ballz
quote:
Please, tell me you can smell my sarcasm.
Indeed I can , as well as your ... Geauxrilla Ballz
Posted on 8/5/14 at 4:31 pm to the808bass
quote:
Thanks for demonstrating that Sowell's opinion piece was on point.
Sowell's opinion piece is valid only to those who think the lives of all Palestinians should be treated like those of rats.
Posted on 8/5/14 at 4:42 pm to the808bass
quote:
You're playing a shell game. If it's definitively proven Hamas, at the highest level, did orchestrate the kidnapping and murder of the teens, you will still believe Israel's attack was illegitimate.
If this was Hamas approved and carried out these hits, it changes things. But why not just arrest the folks who were directly involved in the attacks which certainly couldn't have been 400 people? And why demolish the homes of people who are only "suspected of being related to the hitmen"? After all, they didn't demolish the homes of the settlers who imolated the Palestinian kid. It's Bibi's pattern of collective punishment and shooting first and asking questions later that I have a problem with, regardless whether of not Hamas was involved.
Posted on 8/5/14 at 4:42 pm to trackfan
quote:I would imagine Israel had evidence prior to this. Israel disclosed the names of prime suspects on June 27,2014. LINK
did Israel imprison 400 Hamas members a month ago, who not coincidentally were all released as part of Israel's last deal with Hamas, if they just got evidence today?
Posted on 8/5/14 at 4:58 pm to Rex
quote:
Sowell's opinion piece is valid only to those who think the lives of all Palestinians should be treated like those of rats.
Nonsense. Warfare isn't symmetrical. You said his argument was a straw man in that thread and then when someone makes the exact point that you said no one was making, you make an irrelevant ad hominem.
quote:
Sowell's quoted statement above is an arrogant strawman.
Posted on 8/5/14 at 5:02 pm to Rex
This really isn't that hard to understand. Hamas has been lobbing rockets into Israel for years. I think like 15,000 or more. It used to be a daily occurrence for suicide bombers to detonate on public buses in Israel. This stuff has been going on for a long long time. Stop trying to justify the simple fact that the extremist Palestinians and Iran will never stop attacking Israel. It has been made very clear by both that they want to wipe the Jewish people from the face of the Earth. You can put whatever spin on it that you like. Israel is for the Jews. Accept it. As long as they are attacked, they will defend themselves, and in case you haven't learned yet, they are really good at it. That's all that this is, as it was with Hezbullah, and so forth. I know several Jews and several Palestinians. I'm plenty informed and obviously way more unbiased than those in here like Ghazi, track, and Rex. If Israel truly wanted to harm civilians, which is ludicrous, it's pretty obvious they are capable of way more than those that were unfortunately lost. The latest and most accurate statistics are showing that the figures are closer to 50/50 Hamas/Civilians. Stop using human shields and there would be very few civilian deaths. What do you have to say about the Hamas Manual that was made public just today instructing the use of civilians as human shields and the benefits mounting civilian deaths would have for Hamas. Hamas has gone out of their way to round up as many civilian deaths as possible. As soon as the last truce started, Hamas immediately started building tunnels using the concrete Israel gave them to rebuild infrastructure(that's Israel's bad for trusting). The blockade only was put into place AFTER Israel found massive amounts of rockets being brought in. We all know what those rockets get used for. I could go on, but it's pointless. Logic escapes you guys. Real class act Hamas is!
TL;DR
Use your damn heads people. Both sides play the propaganda game, but one side has the facts to fall back on. Hamas doesn't.
TL;DR
Use your damn heads people. Both sides play the propaganda game, but one side has the facts to fall back on. Hamas doesn't.
Posted on 8/5/14 at 7:56 pm to TheInsider
Bump. Nothing? No response? Even if you guys did it would be feces of bull! Let's hope(I know better) that for once, The Muslim Brotherhood, Hamas, Hezbullah, etc actually give peace a real chance and putting the thirst for blood behind them. Here's to hoping for a miracle
Posted on 8/5/14 at 8:00 pm to trackfan
quote:
Well, if the Israeli government says it, it must be true.
Of course
Israel is the lone light of a dark polluted muslim world
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