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Started By
Message
re: Guns on movie sets: “Unreasonable and unrealistic” to expect actor to check load
Posted on 10/26/21 at 10:54 am to Ag Zwin
Posted on 10/26/21 at 10:54 am to Ag Zwin
quote:
I’ve gone out of my way to not blame him personally
Why? This is on him.
Hand a weapon to anyone and tell them it isn't loaded. If they don't check for themselves stay the frick away from them they don't know how to handle weapons.
I clear every weapon handed to me (or double-check it is loaded depending on the situation). Every weapon is Red-con-One until I lay eyes and hands to know it is not.
quote:
introduce a requirement that the actor check the clip (or cylinder) and chamber in front of the armorer when it’s handed off
Already in place. It is called common fricking sense.
Even when I am shopping for a gun and the sales person clears and checks a weapon in front of me the first thing I do is clear and check the weapon when handed to me. It is not complicated.
Hell, when I grab a weapon out of my safe (only I have access to) the first thing I do is clear and check the weapon.
I guess what I am saying is the first thing anyone should do when a weapon enters their control is clear and check its status.
1
Posted on 10/26/21 at 10:55 am to Ag Zwin
Democrats are idiots and will come up with any excuse to justify the stupidity of their Celebrity Overlords.
Posted on 10/26/21 at 11:05 am to Ag Zwin
quote:
Seriously?
Maybe I wasn’t clear enough, but I have not been referring to this specific case when I say there needs to be better training and processes. I was referring to all sets, where the vast majority of guns are autos.
I guess I’ll go back and change it so the Bro’s won’t sound off.
Calling a mag a clip is like #1 sign the speaker is inexperienced with guns. This is meant as no offense to you, but it's a thing.
Posted on 10/26/21 at 11:08 am to AndyCBR
quote:
Regardless, the armorer is supposed to keep the firearm secure and make it safe for the actor to use.
As others have stated it doesn’t make much sense to have live ammo anywhere near a set.
quote:
Regardless, the armorer is supposed to keep the firearm secure and make it safe for the actor to use.
As others have stated it doesn’t make much sense to have live ammo anywhere near a set.
Using a live gun with blanks is still reckless. This isn't the first incident on a set. think back to Brandon Lee. Not sure why its still a practice.
Posted on 10/26/21 at 11:20 am to Ag Zwin
quote:
Unreasonable and unrealistic” to expect actor to check load
seriously, these are the idiots who tell us that the NRA is a terrorist organization.
my god. tell me this is the Bee. no way someone made a legitimate argument that a person pointing a gun at someone shouldn't be responsible for whats in it.
jesus
Posted on 10/26/21 at 11:33 am to Ag Zwin
Handling a firearm is quite safe and easy if you follow a few simple instructions. I cannot believe that movie studios, with all their lawyers and contracts have not required everyone on set to go through a firearms class. Hell in Alabama you cannot get a hunting license without completing a hunter safety class.
1. Treat all firearms as loaded, even when you "know" they arent.
2. Never put your finger on the trigger until you are ready to shoot.
3. Never point firearm at something you do not intend to shoot.
4. Know what is beyond your intended target, so you dont hit something you didnt intend to do.
Thats it. Its something I taught to both my children at around age 4 or 5. I kept repeating it to them until they were old enough to handle a rifle safely.
1. Treat all firearms as loaded, even when you "know" they arent.
2. Never put your finger on the trigger until you are ready to shoot.
3. Never point firearm at something you do not intend to shoot.
4. Know what is beyond your intended target, so you dont hit something you didnt intend to do.
Thats it. Its something I taught to both my children at around age 4 or 5. I kept repeating it to them until they were old enough to handle a rifle safely.
Posted on 10/26/21 at 11:39 am to Ag Zwin
....unless he's one of those evil conservatives!
Wait- who am I kidding? As if Hollywood has any conservatives left, these days.....
This is what can happen when a pack of liberals who know nothing about REAL gun safety (not the fake kind the gun ban groups claim to stand for) get their hands on a loaded firearm.
That poor woman would probably still be alive had Baldwin The arse taken a couple of NRA courses rather than sneer at them and call for their destruction.....
Wait- who am I kidding? As if Hollywood has any conservatives left, these days.....
This is what can happen when a pack of liberals who know nothing about REAL gun safety (not the fake kind the gun ban groups claim to stand for) get their hands on a loaded firearm.
That poor woman would probably still be alive had Baldwin The arse taken a couple of NRA courses rather than sneer at them and call for their destruction.....
Posted on 10/26/21 at 11:39 am to efrad
quote:
Calling a mag a clip is like #1 sign the speaker is inexperienced with guns. This is meant as no offense to you, but it's a thing.
Thanks for the civility. Frustrates the hell out of me when gun guys turn this into some excuse to flex somehow by ridiculing people, especially when newbs come to a gun store to learn.
I’m not anti-gun at all. Firmly pro-2A. Just never grew up with anything but a couple of squirrel guns and a .308 in the house. Dad’s father was shot and killed before he was even born. No idea how much of a factor that was in his decisions about having guns, but he was adamant about safety when we had them out.
Posted on 10/26/21 at 11:43 am to Rocky4LSU
quote:
I was just answering your question...meant no disrespect.
No worries. Vented above.
Posted on 10/26/21 at 11:51 am to Mid Iowa Tiger
quote:
Hell, when I grab a weapon out of my safe (only I have access to) the first thing I do is clear and check the weapon. I guess what I am saying is the first thing anyone should do when a weapon enters their control is clear and check its status.
How is a actor with no prior knowledge or experience with firearms that was hired to play a cowboy supposed to know this. Everyone is not from the South and received a .22 rifle for their 6th birthday.
This post was edited on 10/26/21 at 11:55 am
Posted on 10/26/21 at 11:54 am to xGeauxLSUx
I’m confused. Why did he pull the trigger.
Posted on 10/26/21 at 11:54 am to EA6B
quote:
How is a actor with no prior knowledge or experience with firearms that was hired to play a cowboy supposed to no this. Everyone is not from the South and received a .22 rifle for their 6th birthday.
The knowledge takes less than 10 seconds to acquire, and any adult who is going to touch or pick up a firearm has the responsibility of knowing how to handle it safely.
Besides, on what planet is Alec Baldwin an actor with no prior experience with firearms? He has been in many, many films where his character handles weapons.
This post was edited on 10/26/21 at 12:13 pm
Posted on 10/26/21 at 11:56 am to Ag Zwin
All guns (real and fake) will now have to be banned on all movie sets.
"Even if it saves just one life".
"Even if it saves just one life".
This post was edited on 10/26/21 at 12:18 pm
Posted on 10/26/21 at 11:56 am to 14&Counting
This wasn't the first one on that set! There were three negligent discharges prior to the fatal one, according to a text from a camera grip.
If there is one negligent discharge, you gather the entire crew for a come to Jesus talk about safety. If there are two, someone needs to be fired. But no one was, production wasn't even paused, which is why the camera crew walked. This was probably a financial decision; it was a cheap movie that budgeted for a certain number of man-hours and stopping/resuming to replace a crew member would've added to the cost.
Baldwin, the actor, is not at fault here. The armorer and the AD are supposed to be the two sets of eyes. Baldwin, the producer, is at fault here, for continuing to rush an obviously unsafe production in order to avoid paying the cost of additional filming days and replacing whoever was responsible for the earlier incidents. Hutchins' estate will absolutely take him and everyone else with a producer credit to the cleaners on this.
If there is one negligent discharge, you gather the entire crew for a come to Jesus talk about safety. If there are two, someone needs to be fired. But no one was, production wasn't even paused, which is why the camera crew walked. This was probably a financial decision; it was a cheap movie that budgeted for a certain number of man-hours and stopping/resuming to replace a crew member would've added to the cost.
Baldwin, the actor, is not at fault here. The armorer and the AD are supposed to be the two sets of eyes. Baldwin, the producer, is at fault here, for continuing to rush an obviously unsafe production in order to avoid paying the cost of additional filming days and replacing whoever was responsible for the earlier incidents. Hutchins' estate will absolutely take him and everyone else with a producer credit to the cleaners on this.
This post was edited on 10/26/21 at 11:58 am
Posted on 10/26/21 at 11:58 am to EA6B
quote:
How is a actor with no prior knowledge or experience with firearms that was hired to play a cowboy supposed to know this. Everyone is not from the South and received a .22 rifle for their 6th birthday.
SO he is handed a weapon (even stipulating he has never handled one before which is not the case) that he knows is dangerous because in his make-believe world of acting when he points it at someone and it goes "bang" they die he should just point it at someone and pull the trigger?
Posted on 10/26/21 at 12:16 pm to Ag Zwin
quote:Maybe I'm arguing semantics but given that the armorer is the expert and the actor may not know the first thing about guns(red flag if you're counting on that person here) then shouldn't the armorer then be required to check it in front of the actor or even better, a 2nd person who actually knows what they're looking at?
I’ve gone out of my way to not blame him personally and make the point that, if SOP is to rely completely on the armorer, that probably needs to change and introduce a requirement that the actor check the magazine (or cylinder) and chamber in front of the armorer when it’s handed off. Two sets of eyes on a 5 second check.
Posted on 10/26/21 at 12:17 pm to Mid Iowa Tiger
quote:
SO he is handed a weapon (even stipulating he has never handled one before which is not the case) that he knows is dangerous because in his make-believe world of acting when he points it at someone and it goes "bang" they die he should just point it at someone and pull the trigger?
He was handed a weapon that according to several accounts was told was “Cold”/ safe, why at that point would he think it was dangerous if he was not a gun owner, had never been instructed in gun safety? I know it is hard for some to believe, but there are millions of people walking around that have never touched or fired a gun, didn’t grow up in a household with guns, and have zero knowledge of firearm safety, and some of them end up being actors in westerns. This is why they have armorers on the set. If you were cast in a war movie and given a hand grenade would you show up on set knowing how to distinguish a dummy grenade from one that had a pyrotechnic charge and could actually explode.? To most actors on a movie set a firearm is treated the same as the grenade, it is assumed the professional in charge of it has given them something safe to handle.
Posted on 10/26/21 at 12:19 pm to Ag Zwin
Simply put:
Those that advocate for gun restrictions are the ones that know the least about the topic - NPComb
Those that advocate for gun restrictions are the ones that know the least about the topic - NPComb
Posted on 10/26/21 at 12:21 pm to AndyCBR
quote:
or if this is some type of accidental discharge scenario
This was a negligent discharge and not an accidental discharge. There is a difference between the two and this difference is important.
No one is claiming the revolver was fired as a result of being dropped or knocked into something--this could be accidental.
The hammer was intentionally cocked (if single action) and the trigger was intentionally pulled--this caused the bullet to be fired. There is nothing accidental about this tragic event.
Negligence is in abundance:
- Someone negligently brought a live round onto the set.
- The armorer negligently did not verify the firearm was unloaded/"cold" at the time it was delivered to Alec Baldwin.
- Alec Baldwin negligently aimed the firearm at a person (I've heard this was a POV shot, thus aimed at the camera).
- Alec Baldwin negligently did not verify the firearm was "cold." Baldwin may have relied on the person who gave him the firearm but this was Baldwin's decision and does not absolve him of his responsibility.
- The Director of Cinematography negligently permitted the firearm to be pointed at her.
- The Director negligently allowed the firearm to be pointed at a person instead of ensuring all people (including himself who was wounded) were out of the line of fire (even if only by a foot or so).
Ultimately, Alec Baldwin intentionally pulled the trigger and a negligent discharge occurred. The events leading up to the Director of Cinematography being killed were not accidents.
Posted on 10/26/21 at 12:21 pm to BigJim
quote:
But remember he is a producer on the film as well. He very well might be held civilly liable in that role.
Great point. Wearing the producer hat, he may have some accountability there.
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