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Started By
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re: Given today's mindset on the right of "Stay out of Ukraine", what about Kuwaitt in '90?
Posted on 11/16/23 at 12:33 am to davyjones
Posted on 11/16/23 at 12:33 am to davyjones
I think a big motivation for HW Bush to go to war with Saddam Hussein was to get the news off his son and his involvement in the Silverado Savings and Loan scandal which cost the taxpayers many millions of dollars.
It worked,never heard another word about Silverado S&L or Neil Bush.
There was a whole lot of bullshite propaganda put out prior to the actual war.The media was full of scary stories-Saddam had a fierce army,a gazillion tanks the majority of which didn’t even run as it turned out.We shipped 100,000 body bags over because casualties were going to be enormous,a hospital ship was parked off the coast to deal with the multiple casualties.
The best one was the “nurse” interviewed on the news crying because the brutal Iraqi soldiers came into the Kuwaiti hospital nursery where she worked,dumped babies out of isolettes and took them back to Iraq.
Later on it came out that never happened and she wasn’t a nurse at all. Rather she was an actress paid to make that propaganda video.
I am convinced the second war was orchestrated by Dick Cheney to enrich Halliburton and the rest of the MIC.
In other words,it was all bullshite.
It worked,never heard another word about Silverado S&L or Neil Bush.
There was a whole lot of bullshite propaganda put out prior to the actual war.The media was full of scary stories-Saddam had a fierce army,a gazillion tanks the majority of which didn’t even run as it turned out.We shipped 100,000 body bags over because casualties were going to be enormous,a hospital ship was parked off the coast to deal with the multiple casualties.
The best one was the “nurse” interviewed on the news crying because the brutal Iraqi soldiers came into the Kuwaiti hospital nursery where she worked,dumped babies out of isolettes and took them back to Iraq.
Later on it came out that never happened and she wasn’t a nurse at all. Rather she was an actress paid to make that propaganda video.
I am convinced the second war was orchestrated by Dick Cheney to enrich Halliburton and the rest of the MIC.
In other words,it was all bullshite.
0
Posted on 11/16/23 at 3:07 am to Tigertittie
Because of the Iran/Iraq war, you could argue we shouldn’t have cared but we did right or wrong.
Posted on 11/16/23 at 3:33 am to Tigertittie
quote:
And yes I know it was to for him to fight Iran.
And why was he having to fight Iran?????? Hhhmmmmm.....
Posted on 11/16/23 at 3:40 am to touchdownjeebus
Kuwait ,1, was much more simply just an aggravated theft/pillage. The end game was clearly defined,
trouble is sadam was left in power and started war again ten years later.
trouble is sadam was left in power and started war again ten years later.
Posted on 11/16/23 at 4:49 am to touchdownjeebus
quote:
The Kuwaitis were sideways drilling into the Basra oil pits. Saddam asked to them to stop or to be compensated. When Saddam reached out to the US for counsel, it was explained that this was an arab matter. In Arab culture, we basically gave him our blessing to handle it how he saw fit.
You skipped two steps here, bruh. Tensions rose due to the aftermath of the Iran-Iraq War. Iraq was bankrupt and owed countries money. One of those countries was Kuwait, who was suffering through an economic downturn at the time and wanted its money back. Iraq couldn't pay and asked Kuwait if they would forgive the debt owed to them. Of course Kuwait refused. This pissed Iraq off and their anger became exacerbated by Kuwait's refusal to stop their high production of oil. Both nations were members of OPEC and Kuwait's high production of oil was driving down prices, angering Iraq and other OPEC members. When Kuwait refused to cut back production, Saddam threatened military action.
The sideways drilling was the final straw for Iraq. They demanded Kuwait pay $10 billion as recompense but Kuwait counter-offered with a $500 million settlement. This counter offer was not accepted and Iraq invaded Kuwait on August 2, 1990.
This post was edited on 11/16/23 at 4:50 am
Posted on 11/16/23 at 5:08 am to Ag Zwin
For me personally, the wars in Iraq, and Afghanistan shaped my view of war and made me much, much less willing to fight in one where America’s direct security is not in danger.
I remember people talking about the MIC in the 1990s but I dismissed that talk.
Now I’m the one talking about useless wars for no other reason than to enrich the MIC and American politicians.
I remember people talking about the MIC in the 1990s but I dismissed that talk.
Now I’m the one talking about useless wars for no other reason than to enrich the MIC and American politicians.
Posted on 11/16/23 at 5:27 am to TigerDoc
quote:
An ally was being invaded by an aggressor
and they were killing babies
Posted on 11/16/23 at 5:33 am to Ag Zwin
quote:The problem is we instigated the Ukraine war. No NATO, no western meddling = no war. Further where Kuwait was about stability of the oil trade, Ukraine appears to be about preservation of money laundering.
"Stay out of Ukraine", what about Kuwaitt in '90?
Posted on 11/16/23 at 5:52 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
The problem is we instigated the Ukraine war. No NATO, no western meddling = no war.
exactly
no FA
no FO
Posted on 11/16/23 at 5:56 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
No NATO, no western meddling = no war.
So if you get down to it, it's Hitler's fault. No invasion of the Soviet Union in 1941 means no Soviet advance into eastern Europe in 1944 and 1945. That means no NATO, no Cold War, no western meddling, and no Russo-Ukrainian War.
Posted on 11/16/23 at 6:04 am to Ag Zwin
We should have stayed out of
WWI
WWII
Korean War
Vietnam
Iraq War part 1
Afghanistan after terror infrastructure was destroyed (we had Bin Laden and Bush let him go because if we caught him that soon there would be no support for invading Iraq)
Iraq War 2
WWI
WWII
Korean War
Vietnam
Iraq War part 1
Afghanistan after terror infrastructure was destroyed (we had Bin Laden and Bush let him go because if we caught him that soon there would be no support for invading Iraq)
Iraq War 2
Posted on 11/16/23 at 6:08 am to The Boat
quote:
If the US never stationed in Saudi Arabia the WTC may still be standing.
Imagine if the hijackers never made it onto the planes in the first place and the plot was stopped while they were training.
What kind of alternate universe would we be living in? Would GWB still have gotten involved with a Desert Storm II for the hunt for weapons of mass destruction? Would the US be more fiscally sound by not plowing through trillions on a failed 20 year nation building adventure in Afghanistan and Iraq?
On the flip side, would Bin Laden have tried a larger more deadly attack using a dirty bomb or more sophisticated attack or weapons?
Posted on 11/16/23 at 7:26 am to davyjones
quote:
I always thought that Saddam was probably the best person to keep the trashy Islamic fundamentalists at bay and under control to the fullest extent possible, because he likely didn’t much care for the threat to his absolute power in that country. He wasn’t all about the jihadist life like the terrorists were or are. And he didn’t have to worry with all that red tape in shaking them down for info like we do. They probably didn’t really want to mess around with his arse, I’d reckon.
Could the same be said about the Shah?
Seems like the ME had a bunch of these types, and we decided to remove them.
Posted on 11/16/23 at 7:30 am to Ag Zwin
What was the national debt in 1990? What is it today?
Uhm, we are borrowing money and throwing it at Ukraine. And Israel, and Gaza, and Iran. We’re broke
Uhm, we are borrowing money and throwing it at Ukraine. And Israel, and Gaza, and Iran. We’re broke
Posted on 11/16/23 at 7:42 am to OccamsStubble
You could at least make a reasonable case that our interests were at stake in Kuwait. Saddam was threatening to go into Saudi and control the Persian Gulf and control the flow of oil we were and still are dependent on. HW Bush wisely avoided regime change and nation building in Iraq and just kept it on the mission at hand and managed to keep world opinion on his side. Bush Sr. knew that toppling Saddam and owning Iraq was a non-starter.....his idiot son sure didn't learn that lesson.
Posted on 11/16/23 at 7:45 am to TigerDoc
quote:
met its objectives, had low American casualties.
Posted on 11/16/23 at 7:49 am to Ag Zwin
quote:
I believe the US and Nato had a role in provoking the situation in Ukraine.
No, just... no.
Russia doesn't get a choice in what other group other countries join. The NATO excuse rings hollow when Russia already had some of their western border with existing NATO countries.
Their actions have done nothing on that front but increase how much of their country is being bordered by NATO.
So if potential NATO membership was the driving factor, they should go ahead and throw in the towel because Finland's entry added a little over 50% of NATO-border they were worried about with the Ukraine border.
At his core, Putin is a Soviet citizen. As such, his desire has always been to "get the band back together," the NATO angle is just a strawman.
Posted on 11/16/23 at 7:50 am to Ag Zwin
quote:The absolute state of conservative boomers
but I didn't have a son in the military (as I do now)
Posted on 11/16/23 at 7:52 am to Ag Zwin
quote:
I believe the US and Nato had a role in provoking the situation in Ukraine.
Provoking and refusal/arm twisting to not negotiate.
Posted on 11/16/23 at 7:54 am to Ag Zwin
quote:
We were highly dependent on that oil, and it would have crippled us for a long time.
It wasn't so much that WE were dependent, but more so our allies. That's why everyone lined up shoulder-to-shoulder with us in that war. THEIR economies depended on it.
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