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Started By
Message
re: Federal Vaccine Mandates
Posted on 10/12/21 at 1:54 pm to Tdot_RiverDawg
Posted on 10/12/21 at 1:54 pm to Tdot_RiverDawg
quote:
What have you heard on requirements of a Attestation Document to report vaccination status?
Nothing outside of what I've already said. We were given a two week window to collect the DD-3150. A week prior to the deadline we received a compound wide email telling everyone to immediately stop collecting the forms and destroy any forms collected or uploaded. Standby for further guidance.
Which looking at the situation rationally means the lawyers saw something they really didn't like in the situation.
3
Posted on 10/12/21 at 1:56 pm to Mac Power
All that to add NOV 22nd is still the "deadline". If the Agency is mandating Pfizer or Maderna, the deadline to start the process to be fully vaccinated by the 22nd is Oct 18th. So it's almost crunch time.
Posted on 10/12/21 at 1:58 pm to Mac Power
quote:
That is roughly when it was scrapped. We were supposed to start weekly testing Sep 13th, but that Friday before the weekend, they said we were holding off. The next week I heard it was canned for budget reasons.
Lmao! Yeah, if that is actually about when they scrapped it, then they lied. It was because of the mandate and no longer having the option to test.
quote:
Agencies will have to follow the normal process and give required procedural rights, and follow any required by collective bargaining agreements, when they the guidance says.
All this means is they can't skip steps or ignore CBAs. The Taskforce recommendations could be followed, or they could drag them out longer. But unless they just flat out ignore the EO, they are going to have to do something.
quote:
I have to jump through so many hoops to get bad employees fired.
Oh, trust me, I know. It's why so many lazy people are still in the government. I've said countless times that you could damn near kill a guy and still not get fired.
But if you just flat out refuse to get the vaccine and aren't applying for an accommodation, I don't see how much more fuel they would need. If someone wants to fire you, they'll push for it. And at that point, it's not just a question of wrongful termination. It's a question of whether the mandate is lawful or not. The whole premise of moving to terminate would revolve around violation of a "lawful order", as the Taskforce guidance says.
Posted on 10/12/21 at 1:59 pm to Lsut81
quote:
Which would have to be a law and not directive ala OSHA?
Correct.
quote:
Or does OSHA get deemed legislation?
No. They have narrow interpretation powers but no ability to pass legislation.
Posted on 10/12/21 at 2:01 pm to Chromdome35
quote:
A lot of companies are not offering testing in lieu of for this reason. So yes, it was most likely a "budgetary" decision.
You've got to love the government. They put together a task force and wrote up a 10 page testing document, just to scrap it when they do the math behind the SOP. We're flying by the seat of our pants right now. Our covid guidelines don't make sense anymore and no one is on the same page. We don't even know what the fully vaccinated people are supposed to do when they have exposure to covid positive cases.
Posted on 10/12/21 at 2:01 pm to Mac Power
quote:
Nothing outside of what I've already said. We were given a two week window to collect the DD-3150. A week prior to the deadline we received a compound wide email telling everyone to immediately stop collecting the forms and destroy any forms collected or uploaded. Standby for further guidance.
Which looking at the situation rationally means the lawyers saw something they really didn't like in the situation.
When did they decide to stop collecting?
We had similar documentation in the form of an electronic form that immediately ceased use upon issuance of the EO. Now, attestation isn't enough--you have to provide medical records proving you are vaccinated.
I know guys that have flat out said they won't provide it to the agency.
Posted on 10/12/21 at 2:02 pm to Cowboyfan89
Frick these vaccines.
Posted on 10/12/21 at 2:07 pm to Mac Power
Totally agree, its the wild west right now.
In no way do I support vaccine mandates, especially the pending 100+ employee one; however, simply from a perspective of managing the issue a single common mandate that all companies operated under would be much simpler than the current 300 different mandates I'm having to manage.
In no way do I support vaccine mandates, especially the pending 100+ employee one; however, simply from a perspective of managing the issue a single common mandate that all companies operated under would be much simpler than the current 300 different mandates I'm having to manage.
Posted on 10/12/21 at 2:08 pm to Cowboyfan89
quote:
Oh, trust me, I know. It's why so many lazy people are still in the government. I've said countless times that you could damn near kill a guy and still not get fired.
But if you just flat out refuse to get the vaccine and aren't applying for an accommodation, I don't see how much more fuel they would need. If someone wants to fire you, they'll push for it. And at that point, it's not just a question of wrongful termination. It's a question of whether the mandate is lawful or not. The whole premise of moving to terminate would revolve around violation of a "lawful order", as the Taskforce guidance says.
I'm applying and hopefully I get approved. I am a covid survivor and had a strong antibody test recently. I know this doesn't hold much weight for a medical exemption, but I'm going for it. the new NDAA bill for DoD funding includes some language on accepting antibody tests for an exemption. I just don't know when they are scheduled to vote on it.
https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/4350/text
quote:
SEC. 720. DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE PROCEDURES FOR EXEMPTIONS FROM
MANDATORY COVID-19 VACCINES.
(a) Exemptions.--The Secretary of Defense shall establish uniform
procedures under which covered members may be exempted from receiving
an otherwise mandated COVID-19 vaccine for administrative, medical, or
religious reasons, including on the basis of possessing an antibody
test result demonstrating previous COVID-19 infection.
Posted on 10/12/21 at 2:13 pm to Cowboyfan89
quote:
When did they decide to stop collecting?
We had similar documentation in the form of an electronic form that immediately ceased use upon issuance of the EO. Now, attestation isn't enough--you have to provide medical records proving you are vaccinated.
I know guys that have flat out said they won't provide it to the agency.
I heard about it on Oct 1st. The official email came on Monday Oct 4th.
They've mentioned here needing to bring in your vaccination card as proof as well. I think keeping a copy on file, but I could be totally wrong about that. Something along the lines of needing it for govt funded travel.
Posted on 10/12/21 at 2:16 pm to GumboPot
quote:
No. They have narrow interpretation powers but no ability to pass legislation.
And there is no way they will get 60 votes in the Senate to pass a law mandating vaccinations.
Posted on 10/12/21 at 2:17 pm to Chromdome35
Yeah, I hear ya. That has to be tough. I think this has the potential to snowball as well.
My HLR is as conservative as they come. Very Anti-mandate. He got vaccinated because he is in the risk category, but has come around to hate the idea of boosters and has enough common sense to see this for what it is. Will he go so far as firing a good employee who doesn't want the vaccine? I don't see it in him, but we'll see as this fight is headed to his doorstep.
My HLR is as conservative as they come. Very Anti-mandate. He got vaccinated because he is in the risk category, but has come around to hate the idea of boosters and has enough common sense to see this for what it is. Will he go so far as firing a good employee who doesn't want the vaccine? I don't see it in him, but we'll see as this fight is headed to his doorstep.
Posted on 10/12/21 at 2:23 pm to Tdot_RiverDawg
My company mandate just came down (fed contract). Sucks arse. I'm not anti vax. I just hate not having the choice.
Posted on 10/12/21 at 2:28 pm to Chromdome35
quote:
they can't violate the law.
Is an executive order law?
Posted on 10/12/21 at 2:38 pm to Lsut81
quote:
Which would have to be a law and not directive ala OSHA?
Or does OSHA get deemed legislation?
Rules and regulations which are properly issued by OSHA have the full force of law as long as they are constitutional and within the powers given to the executive from Congress for that purpose (occupational health and safety, whatever else OSHA does, etc.).
OSHA has not issued anything in this instance because they cannot configure a way to make Biden's proposed mandate constitutionally viable.
Posted on 10/12/21 at 2:40 pm to SippyCup
quote:
Is an executive order law?
Depends on the order, the enabling legislation, and the government action at issue. Generally, rules properly promulgated by executive agencies pursuant to executive orders have the force of law unless they are unconstitutional.
Posted on 10/12/21 at 2:40 pm to Cowboyfan89
quote:
I would be interested to see an agency's leaders oppose enforcing this simply to see what the Biden Administration would do.
In all reality that's what needs to be done, not just for this specific issue but to finally set a concrete framework for what EO's and/or OSHA can do without prior legislative directive.
Posted on 10/12/21 at 2:41 pm to Mac Power
quote:
Which looking at the situation rationally means the lawyers saw something they really didn't like in the situation.
So like is it maybe not "legal" or whatever the right word is to do this???? That would be awesome.
Posted on 10/12/21 at 2:54 pm to Mac Power
quote:
SEC. 720. DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE PROCEDURES FOR EXEMPTIONS FROM MANDATORY COVID-19 VACCINES. (a) Exemptions.--The Secretary of Defense shall establish uniform procedures under which covered members may be exempted from receiving an otherwise mandated COVID-19 vaccine for administrative, medical, or religious reasons, including on the basis of possessing an antibody test result demonstrating previous COVID-19 infection.
So no official guidance until the whole bill passes? Lol
Posted on 10/12/21 at 2:56 pm to Mac Power
quote:
I heard about it on Oct 1st. The official email came on Monday Oct 4th.
Yeah, I think it was late September that we finally got emails about it, but it was because of the Mandate that we no longer had to complete the form.
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