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re: Federal Judge Rules Trump Must Hand Over Tax Returns to New York Prosecutors

Posted on 10/7/19 at 10:28 am to
Posted by AggieHank86
Texas
Member since Sep 2013
44345 posts
Posted on 10/7/19 at 10:28 am to
quote:

They are in federal court seeking an injunction against the Manhattan DA(state court) who is trying to conduct a criminal investigation against Trump when no crime has been shown to have been committed.

In that the state is seeking his federal tax returns, where would you seek an injunction?
My initial answer dealt with the general question of whether income tax information is subject to discovery.

I just did a bit more reading about this specific ruling. It appears that this issue is before a federal court because the Trump team is seeking protection based upon executive privilege, rather than the general question of whether income tax returns are subject to discovery.

Their view seems to be asserting that THESE tax returns are not discoverable, because he is the president. Correct?

The underlying state case seems to involve the legality or illegality under state law of the payoffs to his porn stars. Candidly I have not followed this litigation closely.
Posted by SDVTiger
Cabo San Lucas
Member since Nov 2011
93006 posts
Posted on 10/7/19 at 10:31 am to
Seems that third tier law degree you got was worth it
Posted by Bard
Definitely NOT an admin
Member since Oct 2008
57797 posts
Posted on 10/7/19 at 11:26 am to
This will be overturned on appeal.
Posted by Mahootney
Lovin' My German Footprint
Member since Sep 2008
12122 posts
Posted on 10/7/19 at 11:32 am to

Back... And to the Left.
Posted by ninthward
Boston, MA
Member since May 2007
21955 posts
Posted on 10/7/19 at 11:33 am to
So this must be another Obama appointee.
Posted by KevinFaulkDaGawd
Member since Sep 2019
203 posts
Posted on 10/7/19 at 11:51 am to
LINK

Here is the judge's 75 page ruling.

If you want to discuss it, I will be happy to entertain what I am sure is going to be some amazing legal analysis from you.
Posted by KevinFaulkDaGawd
Member since Sep 2019
203 posts
Posted on 10/7/19 at 11:53 am to
quote:

I have a feeling there will be some opportune point in the coming campaign where he just dumps all his tax returns on the media.

It will be fun.


that would be pretty amusing considering the millions (yes, millions) the RNC has spent on Trump legal fees fighting all these lawsuits.

Oh and by the way the appellate courts in both the Mazars and Deutsche Bank cases still have yet to rule. Trump lost both cases at the lower level. So before your prediction of trump releasing his tax returns, it's far more likely one of the 3 aforementioned lawsuits results in the financial docs coming out.
Posted by KevinFaulkDaGawd
Member since Sep 2019
203 posts
Posted on 10/7/19 at 11:54 am to
quote:

He could appeal this well past the end of his second term as POTUS.


Cy Vance has already filed a motion to expedite.

Oral arguments set for October 11, 2019...well into the second term of Trump
Posted by Goforit
Member since Apr 2019
8659 posts
Posted on 10/7/19 at 11:54 am to
Not so fast says appeals court!
Posted by KevinFaulkDaGawd
Member since Sep 2019
203 posts
Posted on 10/7/19 at 11:56 am to
quote:

Can you provide one reason to believe the IRS missed anything when they originally reviewed Trump's taxes?


"an IRS employee who said he was told that at least one Treasury Department political appointee tried to interfere with an audit of Trump or Vice President Pence’s tax returns."

LINK

Posted by Y.A. Tittle
Member since Sep 2003
109516 posts
Posted on 10/7/19 at 11:57 am to
I wish I had invested in DC whistle stores.
Posted by udtiger
Over your left shoulder
Member since Nov 2006
112231 posts
Posted on 10/7/19 at 11:58 am to
quote:

"an IRS employee who said he was told that at least one Treasury Department political appointee tried to interfere with an audit of Trump or Vice President Pence’s tax returns."


Hearsay - not 1st hand

Tried - i.e., did not succeed

Does not even say how (could have been interfering to frick them)
Posted by BestBanker
Member since Nov 2011
18910 posts
Posted on 10/7/19 at 12:18 pm to
quote:

Tax returns have been subject to discovery in civil litigation

So there's no law that states a candidate for office must show their tax filings?
Posted by antibarner
Member since Oct 2009
26040 posts
Posted on 10/7/19 at 12:21 pm to
It can't be legal, with no evidence of any crime having been committed, to demand access to one's tax returns for the reason to search through them to both come up with some process crime and to leak then to the media for political reasons.
Posted by MarinaTigerEsq
Member since Aug 2019
1330 posts
Posted on 10/7/19 at 12:21 pm to
quote:

have a feeling there will be some opportune point in the coming campaign where he just dumps all his tax returns on the media. It will be fun.


Probably not. The average person is mentally and educationally unable to understand the complexity of a Trump (or any wealthy businessman’s) tax return.
Posted by SlapahoeTribe
Tiger Nation
Member since Jul 2012
12441 posts
Posted on 10/7/19 at 12:26 pm to
quote:

quote:

Can you provide one reason to believe the IRS missed anything when they originally reviewed Trump's taxes?
”an IRS employee who said he was told that at least one Treasury Department political appointee tried to interfere with an audit of Trump or Vice President Pence’s tax returns."
So the IRS was covering for Trump for five years during the Obama administration?



Think that through for a moment.
Posted by AggieHank86
Texas
Member since Sep 2013
44345 posts
Posted on 10/7/19 at 12:32 pm to
quote:

Here is the judge's 75 page ruling
TLDNR: This Ruling has nothing to do with whether this federal judge thinks a tax return should (or should not) be subject to discovery. To the contrary, it turns upon the federal anti-injunction statute, which provides that a federal court should keep his nose out of state court criminal litigation, except under very clearly defined circumstances not present here.

Cliff notes.

The federal anti-injunction act provides that a federal court should not stick its nose into state court criminal litigation, when the “federal” party has an adequate opportunity to obtain judicial review of its federal Constitutional claims in the state criminal case. Falco v, Suffolk County.

Trump argued that this line of cases does not apply, because the subpoena was issued in a grand jury investigation and thus that no criminal case was yet pending. The court disagreed.

Trump argued that he did not have adequate redress in NY appellate courts, because. Y and the feds are in disagreement as to whether a sitting POTUS can even be indicted in state court. Again, the court disagreed.

Trump argued that the NY state proceeding was brought in bad faith, an exception to the anti-injunction act. The Court disagreed.

Trump also argued Presidential Immunity. Because the Court ruled under the anti-injunction statute, the immunity issue did not form the basis for its ruling. Nonetheless, the court included some dicta regarding immunity, indicating that the immunity in question is less broad than asserted by Trump. Basically, the court indicated that none of the bases for the official DoJ memos on immunity are applicable to this case.
Posted by gthog61
Irving, TX
Member since Nov 2009
71001 posts
Posted on 10/7/19 at 12:36 pm to
This is nothing but a fishing expedition
Posted by AggieHank86
Texas
Member since Sep 2013
44345 posts
Posted on 10/7/19 at 5:39 pm to
All four threads about this ruling quickly dropped off Page One. This tells me that people are finally beginning to grasp that these procedural rulings are NEITHER great wins NOR devastating losses.
Posted by timdonaghyswhistle
Member since Jul 2018
20757 posts
Posted on 10/7/19 at 5:48 pm to
If the judge had this power why wouldn't he just order the IRS to turn them over?
This post was edited on 10/7/19 at 5:49 pm
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