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Message
re: Evolution: Missing link found. Fish => Tetrapod
Posted on 1/14/14 at 1:23 pm to GeauxxxTigers23
Posted on 1/14/14 at 1:23 pm to GeauxxxTigers23
quote:
I knew I should of stayed in school.
ISWYDagainT
Posted on 1/14/14 at 1:24 pm to GeauxxxTigers23
quote:have (sorry)
I knew I should of stayed in school.
Posted on 1/14/14 at 1:39 pm to GeauxxxTigers23
Ok, the second one was obvious
Posted on 1/14/14 at 1:40 pm to NC_Tigah
Although Im sure this is a rough and very general explanation of it, this is what I have learned.
As a species multiplies, random genetic mutation naturally occurs. These are generally very small and usually not noticeable on the macro scale in the organism. A noticeable one may be an offspring being born with a genetic predisposition for slightly larger size, a slightly slower metabolism, or a slight increase in testosterone. In a species with a relatively small population and that still relies on natural selection, this adaption may allow the creature to survive an attack, live longer on less food, or dominate a certain territory respectively. This survival and domination may allow this individual to pass on this gene while others who do not have this gene may have died off because of their lack of it. This fortunate individual gets to reproduce simply by being alive while others are not and therefore passes this gene to his offspring who then may have this gene. They then may have this gene while also having similar physical traits to their parents due to other genes.
Genetic mutations continue to occur similarly to this and either increase the organisms chances of survival and reproduction or decrease it.
This occurs gradually over 100s of millions of years and eventually these small mutations result in massive changes and speciation.
This is generally how evolution occurs.
As a species multiplies, random genetic mutation naturally occurs. These are generally very small and usually not noticeable on the macro scale in the organism. A noticeable one may be an offspring being born with a genetic predisposition for slightly larger size, a slightly slower metabolism, or a slight increase in testosterone. In a species with a relatively small population and that still relies on natural selection, this adaption may allow the creature to survive an attack, live longer on less food, or dominate a certain territory respectively. This survival and domination may allow this individual to pass on this gene while others who do not have this gene may have died off because of their lack of it. This fortunate individual gets to reproduce simply by being alive while others are not and therefore passes this gene to his offspring who then may have this gene. They then may have this gene while also having similar physical traits to their parents due to other genes.
Genetic mutations continue to occur similarly to this and either increase the organisms chances of survival and reproduction or decrease it.
This occurs gradually over 100s of millions of years and eventually these small mutations result in massive changes and speciation.
This is generally how evolution occurs.
This post was edited on 1/14/14 at 2:11 pm
Posted on 1/14/14 at 1:50 pm to goldennugget
quote:
How the hell do fish "evolve" and "mutate" to where they can go from only breathing underwater to being able to breathe oxygen on land?
I had a pink catfish when I was a kid. After it ate all the other fish in the aquarium, it began to take "road trips". We started finding the thing all over the house. We'd grab it, put it back in the aquarium. It even went downstairs on a couple of occasions. Pretty impressive in that it could pop out despite an aquarium lid. Stayed out of water several hours, no worse for ware.
Posted on 1/14/14 at 1:53 pm to Erin Go Bragh
quote:it's
Had you gone that fourth semester you would know its "you're".
Posted on 1/14/14 at 2:05 pm to davesdawgs
quote:
I don't pretend to fully understand but based on college courses in genetics, biology and botany what I remember is this. Genetic mutation is a natural occurrence; it happens often. Most mutations are not helpful and even harmful such as a genetic heart defect. However over millions of years and trillions of mutations rarely a naturally successful mutation coincides with an environmental change that allows said species to survive the change.
The classic and one of the most well documented examples is the English Peppered Moth LINK The misnomer is assigning logic or personification to the process. A species doesn't consciously evolve through it's own strategy, it's just a chance happenstance as a result of the favorable (lucky if you will) mutation that happened at just the right time. Most species, again a classic example was dinosaurs, were not so lucky and died out.
As such, I can imagine that over millions of years with drought conditions over a previously large swampy area/water world that a chance mutation allowed a species previously filtering oxygen from water to become able to breathe air directly. The water breathers died out due to drought conditions and could no longer reproduce obviously so the air breathers became the evolved species because they were able to survive and reproduce. It seems far fetched to be sure from our time perspective but a lot can happen over thousands even millions of years. Just think about the things we have discovered over the last 100 years.
Logical. Makes Sense.
Are there examples of those mutations happening now? I haven't heard of any. Not saying you're wrong, because what you said makes perfect sense. I was just curious as to why we have all these theories about evolution, mutations (positive as relative to the environment), etc... yet we don't see it in action today. (Reference my baby to adult transformation example).
Posted on 1/14/14 at 2:12 pm to dcrews
quote:Give me 100,000 years and a time lapse camera, and I'll give you some of those examples.
Are there examples of those mutations happening now? I haven't heard of any. Not saying you're wrong, because what you said makes perfect sense. I was just curious as to why we have all these theories about evolution, mutations (positive as relative to the environment), etc... yet we don't see it in action today. (Reference my baby to adult transformation example).
Posted on 1/14/14 at 2:14 pm to AlaTiger
quote:
It is amazing how every little thing that they find then changes the whole perspective and now they think something different. 20 years from now, we will find out that it wasn't what they thought it was and well, nevermind, but hey! That's Science and anyone who doesn't believe it is an idiot.
It is funny that this is supposed to be a criticism of the scientific process.
Posted on 1/14/14 at 2:16 pm to dcrews
quote:
Why did the alleles and genes of a particular fish decide it needed the body as a hole to have legs and be able to breath out of water? How did it even know what it needed? Can alleles and genes have intelligent thought to even understand what it needs and why it needs it?
Of course not - all that genetic information had to be present in the "primogenitor" creature that spawned us all - and it had to be placed there by someone or something, period.
Heck, assuming we were the only animal species on Earth (completely impossible, I know, but for purposes of the discussion) - and all we had were pictures of all the other species, without genetic samples of the material, we couldn't approach cobbling together human genomes to produce the creatures - even if we were given all the necessary equipment by some unseen power.
Yet we're to believe that all these mutations that resulted in an evolutionary advantage, were not fatal and were inheritable (EXTREMELY rare in our admittedly limit scope of observation) changed a single organism into every living thing on Earth.
Even if I accepted that all of that is possible (F*ck it - I'll concede that it is possible), then you have to admit that all that information had to be present at the very beginning - at least in some accessible form - and that information must have come from either some "pre-Earth" donor lifeform or some intelligent creator/initiator.
The law of entropy suggests it did not happen that way - by the way, but at least we have observations of natural selection processes that work counter to entropy, at least as we understand it - albeit on a much smaller scale than proposed.
This post was edited on 1/14/14 at 2:18 pm
Posted on 1/14/14 at 2:30 pm to Ace Midnight
The duck billed platypus? This guy looks like someone built all other life on this planet from a bucket of animal parts and it was the last few pieces in the bucket. Some guy with a sense of humor was all like, "Yeah, it'll make something."
This post was edited on 1/14/14 at 2:31 pm
Posted on 1/14/14 at 2:57 pm to goldennugget
quote:
How the hell do fish "evolve" and "mutate" to where they can go from only breathing underwater to being able to breathe oxygen on land?
It makes no sense.
You can watch an underwater breathing tadpole grow into an air breathing frog just in his lifetime, yet you can't imagine the same process happening over hundreds of millions of years and countless generations?
Posted on 1/14/14 at 3:07 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
Evolution: Missing link found
Posted on 1/14/14 at 3:09 pm to Korkstand
quote:
You can watch an underwater breathing tadpole grow into an air breathing frog just in his lifetime
All of that information is contained in a single DNA molecule, created by that frog's parents. You're talking about generational alteration of the DNA sequence, which then results in a new species with the "evolved" traits.
Posted on 1/14/14 at 3:14 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
mutations that resulted in an evolutionary advantage, were not fatal and were inheritable (EXTREMELY rare in our admittedly limit scope of observation
The error rate (after repair mechanisms, which wouldn't have evolved until fairly late in the process) in DNA replication is about 1 per 1,000,000 base pairs.
Now multiply that rate by the billions of base pairs in any genetic code. Multiply that by the more billions of replication events (generations) of organisms.
Rare? To the contrary - evolution was, and is, inevitable.
Posted on 1/14/14 at 3:16 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
and that information must have come from either some "pre-Earth" donor lifeform or some intelligent creator/initiator.
No matter what long winded speech anyone ever gives someone about evolution, the big bang theory, etc... there's always the question, "Well where did THAT come from?"
Posted on 1/14/14 at 3:17 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
You're talking about generational alteration of the DNA sequence, which then results in a new species with the "evolved" traits.
You're right. Scientists have never thought of any of this. You got em!
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