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re: Elon Musk says it is time to leave NATO and the UN
Posted on 3/2/25 at 8:10 am to RollTide1987
Posted on 3/2/25 at 8:10 am to RollTide1987
quote:
Look...I hate globalization as I feel like it leads to the curb of freedoms here in the United States due to our value system being different. However, it was our failure to participate in the League of Nations (the forerunner to the UN) in the aftermath of the First World War that ultimately led to the rise of Imperial Japan and Nazi Germany. We are there as a check against authoritarian imperialism and an assurer of the status quo. Without our power and influence, bad actors can rise and lead to the risk of global conflagrations that will kill tens of millions of people.
frick that. We've babysat Europe long enough. Use that money here at home.
2
Posted on 3/2/25 at 8:12 am to ibldprplgld
quote:
Both NATO and the UN take a lot of US resources yet give us back nothing but grief, disrespect, and headache.
Agree 100%.
Let's also throw in that the UN is extremely anti 1a and 2a. And constantly push for us to lessen those two rights.
Posted on 3/2/25 at 8:12 am to Saint Alfonzo
The money we give NATO is miniscule. What we've wasted in the past 30 years in the Middle East, Ukraine, and wherever else is not however.
Posted on 3/2/25 at 8:13 am to RollTide1987
Couldn’t we still use our power and influence without being in the globalist factions of NATO and the EU? What benefit does the US gain for being in those organizations?
Posted on 3/2/25 at 8:13 am to John Barron
NATO Expansion: What Gorbachev Heard
quote:
Secretary of State James Baker’s famous “not one inch eastward” assurance about NATO expansion in his meeting with Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev on February 9, 1990, was part of a cascade of assurances about Soviet security given by Western leaders to Gorbachev and other Soviet officials throughout the process of German unification in 1990 and on into 1991, according to declassified U.S., Soviet, German, British and French documents posted today by the National Security Archive at George Washington University
Posted on 3/2/25 at 8:13 am to John Barron
If not withdraw, it’s time to greatly reduce the US role in NATO.
Europe seems hellbent on funding and prolonging this war of attrition in eastern Ukraine. Let them pay for it, and let the blood be on their hands.
Europe seems hellbent on funding and prolonging this war of attrition in eastern Ukraine. Let them pay for it, and let the blood be on their hands.
Posted on 3/2/25 at 8:14 am to lake chuck fan
quote:
We need something to stop the spread of woke globalist!!!
This.
So much this.
Posted on 3/2/25 at 8:15 am to Ssubba
The European countries are about to start shite they can’t back up and now wanting to hide behind Daddy U.S. for protection. This is their problem to deal with.
Posted on 3/2/25 at 8:15 am to John Barron
Agree.
Posted on 3/2/25 at 8:15 am to John Barron
Past time. Should have left it decades ago, but the grift for the uniparty is too much.
Posted on 3/2/25 at 8:15 am to Saint Alfonzo
quote:
We've babysat Europe long enough. Use that money here at home.
I agree, however, we are ignoring an uncomfortable reality. Russia is just a red herring. Their economy is trash, their people are poor and destitute, and their ability to wage war against all of Europe is practically non-existent. The scariest thing about the Russian Federation is their nuclear capabilities. That's it.
NATO and the United Nations is needed to curb the rapid rise of the People's Republic of China. They are our #1 geopolitical foe and while we focus on Russia and Ukraine, China is building up its strength for a conflict with the United States over the island of Taiwan. It's coming whether we like it or not. And instead of dividing Europe against us, we should be rallying them into an alliance (to include Russia) against the PRC and its imperialist aspirations in the South China Sea and central Pacific.
This post was edited on 3/2/25 at 8:17 am
Posted on 3/2/25 at 8:16 am to Ssubba
quote:
Big mistake to pull out. We're strengthened by Europe. You could just stay in NATO and reduce the money we give them. You can become more isolationist without giving up your influence on the world.
How are we strengthened by Europe when EU leadership is flirting with a hot war with Russia that the US will have to go fight?
Also, if the US reduces its contributions to NATO then NATO’s power and authority are completely gutted — so then what’s the point of NATO?
On both points: all risk and no reward for the US.
Posted on 3/2/25 at 8:16 am to RollTide1987
quote:
in the aftermath of the First World War that ultimately led to the rise of Imperial Japan and Nazi Germany.
I don't think that US involvement in the League of Nations would've stopped WWII.
Posted on 3/2/25 at 8:16 am to RollTide1987
quote:
However, it was our failure to participate in the League of Nations (the forerunner to the UN) in the aftermath of the First World War that ultimately led to the rise of Imperial Japan and Nazi Germany. We are there as a check against authoritarian imperialism and an assurer of the status quo. Without our power and influence, bad actors can rise and lead to the risk of global conflagrations that will kill tens of millions of people.
Obviously this is correct.
However, Huckster Carlson says "Muh 'Merca Fust."
So...
Posted on 3/2/25 at 8:17 am to RollTide1987
We can pull out of NATO and still aid those same countries if shite goes down. We just don’t need tied into an anything and everything clause when we are the only ones who actually do shite in NATO.
Posted on 3/2/25 at 8:18 am to Ssubba
quote:NATO - Collective defence and Article 5
Big mistake to pull out.
Posted on 3/2/25 at 8:18 am to Ssubba
We are becoming less and less aligned with Europe from an ideology perspective.
They will get involved in Ukraine and by default try to drag us into it. I believe the security guarantees that Zelensky wants is to have NATO country boots on the ground to escalate.
I want no part of that.
They will get involved in Ukraine and by default try to drag us into it. I believe the security guarantees that Zelensky wants is to have NATO country boots on the ground to escalate.
I want no part of that.
Posted on 3/2/25 at 8:20 am to RollTide1987
quote:
Without our power and influence, bad actors can rise and lead to the risk of global conflagrations that will kill tens of millions of people.
Bro, we ARE the bad actors…
Posted on 3/2/25 at 8:20 am to John Barron
Their luxurious and socialist lifestyles have been subsidized by the blood of American soldiers since WWII. They can be the destination vacation and get all the benefits of social welfare when they rely on America for protection
Posted on 3/2/25 at 8:24 am to momentoftruth87
quote:
We can pull out of NATO and still aid those same countries if shite goes down.
Or we can remain in NATO and refocus its mission but also demand the other powers within the alliance spend their fair share. Defeating China will be a concerted international effort. They have the manpower and the resources to be a bitch to fight. We will need NATO as well as South Korea, Japan, India, and Vietnam to ward them off.
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