re: Elon Musk doubles down on ‘pro-Putin’ tweets after challenge from Lindsey Graham

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I think he's wrong. What about if an ethnic minority in a region of the US decided to be independent of America? We should just let them? How large of a majority would they need? To how small an area should this apply?

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If the US govt was torturing, murdering and cleansing those ethnic minorities from their population, yes. We should support a group leaving America in that situation.

It is like people forgot all the atrocities committed by ukraine against its own people in that area.

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Decatur

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It's hilarious to watch you throw a temper tantrum at the suggestion of a peace deal

Because everyone who doesn't agree with WWIII is a Putin puppet or tankie!

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Because it doesn't look like Russia is returning that land.

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They've lost a good chunk of it and are looking to lose more until winter sets in.

Unless the rest of their war machine is significantly better than that they used in this operation, they don't look capable of re-taking it.

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If a stronger country tried to destroy us, conquer us and install an ideology that will oppress our population... in response to our invasion of Iraq... I believe we would send out nukes also as a last resort.

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The biggest difference, in terms of realpolitik, was that nobody could come close to being "stronger".

The second biggest difference is more a schematic/goal one: the US didn't want to claim Iraq as our own. We failed miserably at making Iraq want to join the modern world on its own terms. There's no way we could have held Iraq as "America", despite when crazy libtards thought GWB's plan was.

*ETA: this is why regime change would be pointless. Russia doesn't want to be part of the modern world. Even East Germany is vastly different than West Germany today. Russia has similar institutional/cultural issues.

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He's completely wrong. We would be dealing with China going after Taiwan next while Joe Biden shits his pants in the white house. Then Russia deciding to invade Estonia etc.

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Are we really playing the domino theory game again?

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Are we really playing the domino theory game again?

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To be fair, the Domino Theory has been correct specifically with respect to Russia.

It may not apply to China, but there is no reason to think Russia would be done.

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To be fair, the Domino Theory has been correct specifically with respect to Russia.

It may not apply to China, but there is no reason to think Russia would be done.

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Yeah, once Korea fell, we've pretty much been living under the boot of the USSR

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Yeah, once Korea fell, we've pretty much been living under the boot of the USSR

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I said Russia, not the USSR. They've been very active in acquiring land/puppet regimes the past 15 years or so.

Georgia, Crimea, Belarus, and now Ukraine proper.

What if Putin is gonna save us? Like if he nukes the bad parts of America and lets the rest of us go free

I ran across this exchange on a gold website. It's like you versus the poliboard.

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Bob Moriarty:

I would totally agree with that. What I would disagree with is the characterization that he’s threatening a nuclear war. Putin is saying he will defend Russia and Russia’s interests with everything that he’s got. He’s not going to allow Russia to be destroyed. And clearly The United States has made it clear that they’ve been attacking Russia since 2014. Now, I know that you totally disagree with this, but let’s compare the fair and free and internationally observed of both of the four provinces with the illegal US sponsored Coup e’etat in 2014. So the United States is taking the position that were against democracy and we’re for illegal intervention. The United States keeps attacking Russia and the United States is making a giant mistake of not listening to Putin.

If they had listened to Putin in January and February, there would not have been a war. Putin said, “Look, you agreed not to move NATO one inch to the East, and you lied.” And Ukraine agreed to stop attacking and to negotiate with Donbass directly, and they lied. It’s not Putin that’s the bad guy. It’s the United States and NATO. Putin is fighting all of NATO, with the exception of Hungary.

Goldfinger:

Putin is pure evil and the biggest threat to global peace and prosperity since Hitler. Every time I hear someone defend Putin or try to justify Russia’s attack on Ukraine it’s sickening to me.

Bob Moriarty:

But how can that be true? Putin said, “I’m going to defend Russia.” What’s evil about that?

Goldfinger:

Defending Russia is not the same as invading a sovereign country and killing tens of thousands of people.

Bob Moriarty:

You mean like Iraq and Syria and Afghanistan?

Goldfinger:

This is the neocon response to everything about Putin. When we were little kids, our mothers told us that two wrongs don’t make a right. And a lot of people forgot that. So two wrongs don’t make a right. And Gandhi said, “An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.” So yes, what the US did in Iraq in 2003 was illegal and wrong. What Russia did in Ukraine this year is also illegal and wrong, period.

Bob Moriarty:

Strange enough, Putin is an extremely intelligent lawyer, and from an international law point of view, everything that he did is perfectly legal. And strange enough, he’s getting a lot of pushback from it’s own people because he didn’t use shock and awe. Putin didn’t go in and murder a million people like the United States did in Iraq, okay? Putin has killed somewhere between a hundred thousand and 200,000 Ukrainian soldiers who frankly are Nazis. I mean, they don’t make any bones about it whatsoever. And if you actually look at the conduct of the war, all of the atrocities are being committed by the Ukrainians.

Goldfinger:

Did you see Mariupol? Is this a city of 300,000 people? It’s completely wiped out, absolutely wiped out. And that was not by the Ukrainians. That was because they were surrounded by the Russians and bombed and shelled into oblivion for two months.

Bob Moriarty:

But they didn’t bomb civilians. They bombed Nazis. Good for them.

Goldfinger:

Oh, how do you not bomb civilians? It’s a city. There’s civilians everywhere. Of course, they bombed civilians, Bob. This is such an illogical and irrational argument you’re making.

Bob Moriarty:

All of the Ukrainian citizens are in Poland and Germany, and Latvia. They left Mariupol.

Goldfinger:

So Mariupol was attacked in the first days of the war. A lot of people didn’t have a chance to flee or they didn’t have the ability to flee. So look, I’m just going to end that there because we are never going to see eye to eye on Ukraine. I’ll finish by asking, is there a way for this to actually peacefully resolve? Let’s say the US tells Ukraine, “Look, if you keep trying to take back these four annex territories, you’re going to poke the bear a few too many times and Putin could go nuclear. So why don’t we just do this where you keep what you got, we’ll take you into NATO, don’t attack these territories anymore, and we’ll just kind of have a new border drawn.” And will that be a peaceful resolution?

Bob Moriarty:

Well, Merkel has come up and said, Ukraine should negotiate and Ukraine should recognize that they are not going to regain the territory. The former chancellor of Germany has come out and said, Ukraine should negotiate. It’s the United States and the UK who are telling Ukraine to continue fighting, and it’s total insanity. I mean, there’s no way in hell they’re going to win. And Robert, I’m telling you, the Ukrainians are getting their asses kicked and why they continue to fight is insane. Quite bluntly, you think Putin’s a bad guy, I’m going to tell you flat out. Zelensky and his buddies have been robbing Ukraine blind and everything the guy says proves he’s on drugs. Seven months ago the world understood Ukraine was the most corrupt country in Eurpope and now the Pope has put Zelensky up for sainthood. What am I missing?

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