re: Elon Musk: Annual fraud of US Taxpayer $ is an estimated lower bound of $1.5 Trillion +

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But spending doesn't have to be fraudulent to be wrong/bad.

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Just like wrong/bad is a matter of opinion.

Spending can be called wrong/bad when it isn’t fraudulent or can be called good, even if it is not justified…

Edit - defense spending fraud isn’t considered wrong/bad by some people. Did they eliminate that fraud already?

And how much $$ went to Vulcan Elements. That can be called wrong/bad and fraud as well…

Vulcan Elements is a start-up funded by a Donald Trump Jr.-backed venture capital firm, that has been awarded a $620 million contract from the Pentagon, reports the Financial Times.

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Spending that we don't like isn't fraud though of course

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You're just being intentionally myopic. I mean, how many guilty people, upon being accused, are just going throw their hands up and admit they're guilty and give up the grift?

Again, per my earlier query to Grok:

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In the agencies DOGE did investigate, Musk and the team identified potential waste and fraud amounting to hundreds of billions of dollars annually, though actual realized savings were much lower and heavily disputed. Key examples include:Over $100 billion per year in entitlements payments without proper identification (e.g., no SSN), with an estimated 50% ($50 billion/year or $1 billion/week) being obvious fraud.
Massive fraud in federal block grants to states and every major government program, including hundreds of schemes like the Feeding Our Future scandal in Minnesota (involving billions in misused child nutrition funds).
$161 million in U.S. taxpayer funds to organizations in the Democratic Republic of Congo, including $29 million for HIV/AIDS programs deemed wasteful or fraudulent.
$17 million project for tax policy advice to Liberia (canceled as waste).
Billions in improper payments and fraud uncovered in congressional hearings, such as unrecovered revenue from closed anti-corruption divisions ($247 million in one year alone).
Ideologically driven spending, like USAID funds redirected to political causes (most of its budget, potentially hundreds of millions).

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That's just some top level headline items from a 4 month quick yet deep dive into the books of a few target organizations. It isn't just a disagreement about spending we don't like. Everyone on both sides of the aisle know there is waste and fraud, and both sides have profited in different ways from the grift.

Some of us have been saying this the whole time.

The premise that the federal budget has any business being as big as it is (fraud or no) is a false one.

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doesn't matter if program is legit if they are lying about numbers to get more money that is fraud plain and simple

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Oh, it is that indeed. Good to know that they are such great gatekeepers of the shite they steal from us though.

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is there an amount you would say is insignificant? (Even if that figure is way off?)

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This question was not addressed to me, but I’ll answer anyway. All fraud is serious and should be prosecuted. “Insignificant” is a relative term. I think the fraud is significant, but way less than what Elon Musk is saying it is…like less than 1/5th.

I agree. I actually don’t want to believe it is that much. That would mean that they are not just terrible stewards, but retarded-willingly-blind stewards.

So you would look into a mirror

Inbred low IQ Somali pirates absolutely wreck shop on America.

But every time you get a new job you must show HR 3 forms of ID, a passport, and undergo a background and credit check.

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Just like wrong/bad is a matter of opinion.

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Well, sure, but some opinions are worth more than others.

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Edit - defense spending fraud isn’t considered wrong/bad by some people. Did they eliminate that fraud already?

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The pentagon's budget is bloated beyond reason.

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And how much $$ went to Vulcan Elements. That can be called wrong/bad and fraud as well…

Vulcan Elements is a start-up funded by a Donald Trump Jr.-backed venture capital firm, that has been awarded a $620 million contract from the Pentagon, reports the Financial Times.

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Call it that.

It's not a partisan issue for me. I think "we the people" have lost all control of fedgov, and spending is the root government's power. Defund it all.

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I agree. I actually don’t want to believe it is that much. That would mean that they are not just terrible stewards, but retarded-willingly-blind stewards.

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It would mean that almost the entirety of deficit spending was fraud

Or put another way if the fraud was of this magnitude, our budget deficit would be small enough to where we might actually have a shot at balancing the budget