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Message

re: DOJ releases pictures of Classified documents at Mar-a-Lago

Posted on 8/31/22 at 10:51 am to
Posted by Auburn1968
NYC
Member since Mar 2019
26538 posts
Posted on 8/31/22 at 10:51 am to
quote:

Inside those envelopes you have the entire Russian Collusion Hoax investigation outlined in writing.

And now they broke into his home to get them back. And are going to attempt to charge him even though they are all declassified.


The crooks in the FBI want to keep their dirty deeds "classified" for "national security" reasons.
Posted by Decatur
Member since Mar 2007
32762 posts
Posted on 8/31/22 at 10:52 am to
quote:

You have got to be brain dead to think Trump didn’t run this through his lawyers prior even after he declared the documents declassified.


Wonder when he’s finally going to make this claim in a legal filing. Anyway not sure how much it will matter ultimately if DOJ sticks to Sec. 793.
Posted by Vacherie Saint
Member since Aug 2015
47624 posts
Posted on 8/31/22 at 10:53 am to
quote:

This was easily avoidable by not taking home classified or top secret documents. Add this to the (long) list of stuff that was easily avoidable but Trump did something stupid.


Not how it works, champ. Ex-presidents go through the process of weeding through personal papers and items removed from the WH with the national archives, assisted by the FBI. Obama did the same thing.. classified docs and all. Further, something as ho-hum as a thank you note from a foreign diplomat could easily be marked classified in this scenario - even CNNs legal "experts" attested to this. That's why the documents must be stored in a secure location, i.e. the 45 room at MAL, which the feds had already visited and vetted.

They went in on a tip that undisclosed classified docs were hidden in a safe on the property. That safe did not hold any such documents. Now they are pushing a narrative that Trump must have moved documents out and hidden them because they found dick.
Posted by oogabooga68
Member since Nov 2018
27194 posts
Posted on 8/31/22 at 10:54 am to
quote:

so you think Trump packed all of his things when he left the WH?


Not only do they believe THAT, they think that on the way out he kicked the dog, punched a SecretService Agent in the nuts and raped the Maid.

If it buffers their hatred of Trump, they believe it, no questions.

Just ask our self-annointed boy genius on the site who is sadly now relegated to using Media Matters as a trusted "sauce".....
Posted by ronricks
Member since Mar 2021
12229 posts
Posted on 8/31/22 at 10:55 am to
quote:

Obama did the same thing.



No, he didn't. Obama didn't take these documents to his personal residence. Why must you guys lie like this? There is PLENTY of stuff to shite on Obama about you don't need to fabricate things.
Posted by VoxDawg
Glory, Glory
Member since Sep 2012
77768 posts
Posted on 8/31/22 at 10:55 am to
quote:

Obama did the same thing.. classified docs and all.

Except Hussein's docs in receipt by his Presidential Library Commission are still under seal...
Posted by Y.A. Tittle
Member since Sep 2003
110968 posts
Posted on 8/31/22 at 10:59 am to
quote:

No, he didn't. Obama didn't take these documents to his personal residence.


The vitally significant distinction here being?
Posted by Auburn1968
NYC
Member since Mar 2019
26538 posts
Posted on 8/31/22 at 11:00 am to
If there was anything that the crooks from DOJ and FBI could cling to, it would have been leaked already.

Posted by Vacherie Saint
Member since Aug 2015
47624 posts
Posted on 8/31/22 at 11:02 am to
quote:

No, he didn't. Obama didn't take these documents to his personal residence. Why must you guys lie like this? There is PLENTY of stuff to shite on Obama about you don't need to fabricate things.


Stop it. Obama used a secure storage facility in Chicago because thats where he intended to build his presidential library. Many of those documents are still sealed for some reason. Weird.

Trump used MAL which isnt just his home, but the "Camp David" of his administration - outfitted with a SCIF, secret service detail, administrative and legal staff, and secure storage vetted by the feds themselves. There was never an issue with MAL being used in this process. Stop acting like he brought it to his hunting camp and tossing it under a bed.
This post was edited on 8/31/22 at 11:03 am
Posted by cajunangelle
Member since Oct 2012
167573 posts
Posted on 8/31/22 at 11:03 am to
I would bet the farm the tipster was like Fiona or Vindman. Set-up and they made things up just as an excuse to get in MAL.

The biggest tell that they are politically motivated is the FBI was said to be contacted by the National Archives bitties Jan 2022. The Govt office in charge of packing should have sent the archived documents to the archives.

Everyone in DC was ordered to get Trump.
quote:

When two dozen or more FBI agents searched former President Trump’s residence three weeks ago, most Americans initially were left wondering what in the world must Trump have done. After all, a prodigious FBI search logically indicates an equally prodigious violation of some federal statute; therefore, it must be really serious. One former Department of Justice (DOJ) official told Politico that the evidence sought “was likely so pulverizing in its force” that it would “eviscerate” the possibility of the optics for such an invasive law enforcement action not being good.

Well, it’s now pretty official: The optics aren’t good.

Everyone in America, from plumber to president, is constitutionally protected from a government search that lacks adequate cause.

We now know why the DOJ wanted the affidavit — which is supposed to articulate the probable cause needed for a legitimate search — to be kept under seal. After the magistrate who authorized the search forced the DOJ to unseal a redacted version, two realities came into better focus.

First, the affidavit confirmed that the FBI’s investigation was triggered in January 2022 at the request of the National Archives, which wanted certain documents, especially classified documents, that it considered to be presidential records to be turned over to it by Trump. Second, from what I have seen, I don’t believe the affidavit articulates how a federal law was or is being broken. For those who hold out hope that the affidavit’s redacted sections fill that gap, there is almost no chance that they do. (More on that below.)

As to the first point, this matter is, as suspected, nothing more than a document dispute that was chugging along, appropriately, as a negotiation behind the scenes and apparently making some progress. I don’t see anything in the affidavit asserting a refusal by Trump to cooperate.

Any clinging hope — in certain quarters — that the affidavit possessed “pulverizing” cause to believe Trump was engaged in a truly serious federal violation can — I think — be considered dashed. The pipe dream that Trump was engaged in espionage, actively providing secrets to an enemy I think is as fanciful as the Steele dossier’s Moscow hotel bed reverie. And, no, I don’t believe a smoking gun of espionage or something equally shocking will be in the redacted sections. If the FBI had that, it would have fronted that in the unredacted portions.

As to the second and more important point, the affidavit’s probable cause statements focus on only half of what is needed to show a possible violation of the federal statutes that are cited in the warrant. The affidavit does a reasonable job of establishing cause to believe Trump possessed a range of classified materials — or at least once-classified materials — and that those materials were located in his residence.

But that’s not all that’s needed — in this case in particular. A criminal violation of those statutes only exists if it can be established that the person being investigated was not authorized to possess, store, transfer or copy those documents. This is an easy element to establish against anyone in America. Except one person.

The unredacted parts of the affidavit make no attempt to articulate cause that Trump was not authorized to have these documents in his home. The reason is that, as president, he had broad, legally intimidating authority, established by law and court determinations, to declassify any and all documents and to determine what is and is not a presidential record. Trump and his legal team have asserted that this authority was exercised while he was still president. Therefore, a violation of these fairly low-level and seldom-prosecuted document-oriented statutes cannot be proven.

I don’t think there’s much chance that the affidavit’s redacted portions contain some novel legal theory undercutting this broad, well-established presidential authority. Affidavits for intrusive searches of a private home — the most extreme action the government can take against a resident of the United States, short of arrest — are not the place for advancing theories. Probable cause must be built on facts.

The redacted sections are considerable. Redaction is supposed to be utilized only to protect sensitive methods and techniques — in other words, how the government came by its information that it doesn’t want to publicly divulge so it can keep using those tactics or protect providers of information. A good and prudent example would be the use of confidential human and/or technical sources. A bad example would be citing press reports, a la the Carter Page Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act affidavit.

The redacted portions therefore, normally, will simply cover how the FBI supported its assertions in the unredacted sections that Trump possessed classified materials in his residence — i.e., what confidential or sensitive sources were used to establish those facts. Don’t expect anything more.

The situation does not look good for the government. The Ivy League-educated attorneys of the DOJ had to know this adventure had little chance of an eventual successful prosecution. The use, therefore, of a highly intrusive search of a home simply as a forcing function to retrieve documents for the National Archives — and then not follow through with actual charges — spikes the potential abuse needle dramatically and will not help quiet the growing suspicion that this was more of a political hitjob to take Trump off the chessboard than it was the pursuit of blind justice.

I am often asked if the FBI had no choice but to pursue the National Archives request and open a case. Yes, it had a choice and, no, it didn’t have to open this investigation. The FBI declines to initiate cases involving more serious violations all the time.

thehill.com

Posted by memphisplaya
Member since Jan 2009
87208 posts
Posted on 8/31/22 at 11:07 am to
quote:

Fiona


quote:

Trump can name his son Barron but he can't make him a barron


smugly smiles, crosses arms and leans back in chair as if it was a moment for her


There isn't a fire hot enough for her and Vindman
Posted by mmcgrath
Indianapolis
Member since Feb 2010
37341 posts
Posted on 8/31/22 at 11:08 am to
quote:

McGrath, not really taking up for Trump here, but the FBI does not have a sterling record on evidence protection. Carter Page comes to mind. 4 FISA warrants and all they can tell us is that they found out that he was in the oil business something we already knew.

Even Russian diplomats thought that Carter Page could be a spy. That Trump had him on his campaign staff for so long is more indicative of Trump hiring someone whose sole qualification was to be a courier for documents to Moscow. Beyond that he was a useful idiot.

quote:

Please do not fall in the trap of thinking the FBI are good guys....at any time for anything. A chain of custody would be nice. Did they find these documents out? Did they find them in one box or was this picture the sum of all they found in all of the boxes.
They did that already. The picture of items is what they found in a container (desk drawer) in his office. There was a lot more in other boxes.

quote:

Like I have posted before, Trump should have these alleged declassified documents posted in an official EO or Memorandum. If he did it and says after the fact that " Oh I declassified them" but no paper trail, his assertion gets harder to prove. If that is the case the DOJ and FBI are going to have a field day.
Trump himself has not made any claim that he declassified anything in any filings. He has had opportunity after opportunity to do so, but hasn't. Because it isn't true. Regardless, that doesn't make the documents his property, so he is in just as much trouble.
Posted by the808bass
The Lou
Member since Oct 2012
128846 posts
Posted on 8/31/22 at 11:11 am to
quote:

Even Russian diplomats thought that Carter Page could be a spy.


Lol. You’re such a dumb cünt.
Posted by Y.A. Tittle
Member since Sep 2003
110968 posts
Posted on 8/31/22 at 11:13 am to
quote:

so he is in just as much trouble.


How much is that? What more is there to determine at this point?
Posted by mmcgrath
Indianapolis
Member since Feb 2010
37341 posts
Posted on 8/31/22 at 11:14 am to
That OP ED is from several days ago. The latest filing gives a lot more details on how Trump was hiding documents and obstructing agents. I suspect much of that was in the redacted parts of the affidavit but couldn't be revealed as they were mixed in too closely to sources and methods.

Affidavits aren't written with the anticipation of going public before an indictment.

This latest filing could be written to exclude the sensitive info knowing that it would be made public.

But let's face it. You want to know who ratted Trump out so you can attack them, no?
Posted by LEASTBAY
Member since Aug 2007
16562 posts
Posted on 8/31/22 at 11:17 am to
Interesting time Cover

Posted by oogabooga68
Member since Nov 2018
27194 posts
Posted on 8/31/22 at 11:17 am to
quote:

The picture of items is what they found in a container


Posted by mmcgrath
Indianapolis
Member since Feb 2010
37341 posts
Posted on 8/31/22 at 11:17 am to
quote:

How much is that? What more is there to determine at this point?
The only question is whether Garland and/or Biden are too weak to follow through. The evidence is there.

Also there is the stupid guidance about investigations during an "election". It really shouldn't apply as Trump isn't on the ticket AND the investigation is already public.
Posted by oogabooga68
Member since Nov 2018
27194 posts
Posted on 8/31/22 at 11:18 am to
quote:

You’re such a dumb cünt.


That's an insult to dumb cnts everywhere.
Posted by MFn GIMP
Member since Feb 2011
23008 posts
Posted on 8/31/22 at 11:18 am to
I haven't read the entire thread yet but why would they take the framed magazine cover? Are they saying that is a Presidential Record that Trump isn't allowed to keep? I guess, maybe it was a gift?
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