re: DNA analysis shows that Jews and Arabs Descended from Canaanites

quote:

---

Let’s take this theory that the Israelites were just Canaanites who gradually separated themselves and invented a new religious identity. On the surface, it sounds plausible, but the more you think about it, the more it raises serious questions

---

Exactly. I referenced NT Wright's New Testament and the People of God, chapter 9. All of that has to be invented from an alleged polytheistic origin. It's ludicrous. Why would they do that? What did they stand to gain? How long did this process take? How did they convince an entire culture to go along with it? How does such a thing even happen? How do thoroughgoing monotheistic themes and socio-cultural practicies such as Temple, Torah, terra develop?

Imagine starting to tell all Americans that the country was actually founded from Communist origins and that republics are absolutely evil straight from hell ostensibly because language in early documents bears some resemblance to Native American references. The natives spoke of corn and the colonists spoke of corn too. On top of that, developing an entire sociological eccesiology, basically out of thin air, that everyone somehow agrees to adhere to under the mutual threat of ostracization. It is the textbook definition of a castle in the air

quote:

---

Roman census in Luke

---

Never happened.

quote:

---

Perhaps you should get up to date on Quirinius because archaeology and history do not agree with your "nuh unh"

---

Sorry, it's not compatible with Matthew's accounts of Herod going after Jesus.

Luke/Matthew's account, together, is not possible.

quote:

---

The Earth is not 6,000 years old
Really? You were there?

---

Do you believe that the earth is 6,000 year old?

quote:

---

Do you believe that the earth is 6,000 year old?

---

You're all welcome for that

quote:

---

For one, why would a group trying to assert itself as a native people of the land invent a founding story that clearly casts them as foreigners?

---

The issue with this POV is that you're converging the ideas of the theory-history with the accounts being written in real time. These accounts are written down centuries later when the populations had diverged into distinct cultural groups with a real religious difference. Why would the people who have the monotheism developed from the Canaanite polytheism want to project a (dishonest) history that they're completely separate from the polytheistic heretics? Is that really difficult to understand?

quote:

---

Most cultures root their founding myths in the land itself to legitimize their presence. The Israelite story does the opposite. It insists they came from somewhere else entirely.

---

I think your assumed premise isn't as strong as you imagine it to be.

Take the Romans with the Trojan Aeneas. for probably the easiest example.

You can take this one step further with the Britons arguing, again, that they are also the scions of Troy.

These ancient societies often just made shite up to make their descendants seem separate from their geographical cohabitants, to create a distinct legitimacy for that population. It makes perfect sense that a splinter Canaanite population, after a few centuries of "evolving" the culture, religion, etc. into what the contemporary population felt was a completely separate population, created an origin story of complete bullshite to make them seem like a completely separate population (like the Romans, Britons, and countless other "in groups" in history). This also works with their recitation of this splinter-evolution of the religious pantheon into text form, where they would work overtime to separate themselves from the predecessor society. Again, they wrote these religious texts hundreds of years after the fact and they didn't exactly have good historical records to rely upon, only mostly oral traditions from the previous generation, playing a game of historical-sociological Telephone.

quote:

---

And then there’s the curse of Canaan in Genesis 9, where Noah says Canaan will be a servant to Shem and Japheth. If this were a story made up by Canaanites or their close relatives, why would they cast themselves in such a negative and humiliating light?

---

Again, you're frame of reference is off.

At the point where they are writing these books, they do not see themselves in any was as Canaanites. They are casting their perceived "out group" (the Canaanites) in that negative light, which is typical behavior (especially in competitive religious scenarios).

quote:

---

It would be like writing your own foundational myth to say your ancestors were destined to be second-class citizens. That kind of narrative makes no political or social sense if you’re trying to assert your group’s importance.

---

They did not have genetics. After the centuries of evolution into the "Israelites", they did not see themselves as Canaanite. That's why they made up the origin story to differentiate themselves and emphasized their new religion to further castigate the heretical "out group".

We see this over and over again in history. It's not unique to the Israelites, especially from the developments from Mesopotamia and the Levant. Ignore this specific example (due to the religious association y'all have) and look at the region at that time period. Most of these people share common ancestry down the line and almost all of them created specific origin myths to display their authenticity as a population and legitimacy as whatever bullshite they were out for at that specific time.

If we see this exact scenario with these Stone and Bronze age populations OTHER than the Israelites, why is it such a difficult concept to apply it to the population that became the Israelites?

Amazing.

quote:

---

Amazing.

---

mm hmm

quote:

---

mm hmm

---

You do too I take it?