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re: DNA analysis shows that Jews and Arabs Descended from Canaanites

Posted on 5/28/25 at 11:23 am to
Posted by Narax
Member since Jan 2023
7930 posts
Posted on 5/28/25 at 11:23 am to
quote:

The Roman census of Judea took place on 6 AD.

Yes one did, and in the Greek one can translate Luke protos to refer to the Census before that one.

It's translated in John and Corinthians that way.

I get that you disagree, but it's a valid way to refer to something that is outside of living memory.

The one before the one you remember.
Posted by L.A.
The Mojave Desert
Member since Aug 2003
66646 posts
Posted on 5/28/25 at 11:26 am to
quote:

and in the Greek one can translate Luke protos to refer to the Census before that one.

You are fluent in Koine Greek?
Posted by Narax
Member since Jan 2023
7930 posts
Posted on 5/28/25 at 11:28 am to
quote:

You should learn a little more about Roman history. The people who became the Romans fought more than the Etruscans. They also fought other Latin-speaking tribes or groups, and the “Romans” definitely viewed themselves as being different and more special than those other groups. I think SFP’s analogy of the Aeneas myth is pretty spot on.

Roman language, and DNA are very similar to the Italian tribes, the religion is totally different.

Again this is well documented.

It aligns extremely well with waves of elite replacement.
The most recent one was Greek traders brining the Greek pantheon in the early 1st millennium BC

The Romans didn't home growntheir gods.

Read some Mary Beard.
Posted by Narax
Member since Jan 2023
7930 posts
Posted on 5/28/25 at 11:32 am to
quote:

You are fluent in Koine Greek?


I actually know people who are.

But yes one can read it with a little help.

Interlinear books with Strongs concordance are a great help besides other humans.
Posted by L.A.
The Mojave Desert
Member since Aug 2003
66646 posts
Posted on 5/28/25 at 11:33 am to
quote:

You are fluent in Koine Greek?


I actually know people who are.

But yes one can read it with a little help.


Both of which imply you are NOT fluent in Koine Greek

Yet you make comments like this

quote:

Yes one did, and in the Greek one can translate Luke protos to refer to the Census before that one.

It's translated in John and Corinthians that way.


You are assuming that someone else's translation is accurate and free of bias and/or agenda. You're making definitive comments about a language about which you know almost nothing.
This post was edited on 5/28/25 at 11:52 am
Posted by hashtag
Comfy, AF
Member since Aug 2005
33653 posts
Posted on 5/28/25 at 11:49 am to
quote:

The point being, you are NOT fluent in Koine Greek. Meaning you must take someone else's word for it that their translation is accurate and free of bias and/or agenda.
you're proving to be fluent in skepticism and dodging his argument.
Posted by L.A.
The Mojave Desert
Member since Aug 2003
66646 posts
Posted on 5/28/25 at 11:53 am to
quote:

you're proving to be fluent in skepticism and dodging his argument.


Mo Jeaux is doing a good job of dismantling his argument

My point is that he's basing his argument on details about "translation" of a language about which he knows nothing. He taking the word of people who agree with his POV. The chances of bias confirmation are extremely high



`
This post was edited on 5/28/25 at 12:10 pm
Posted by Mo Jeaux
Member since Aug 2008
63674 posts
Posted on 5/28/25 at 12:14 pm to
quote:

Roman language, and DNA are very similar to the Italian tribes, the religion is totally different.

Again this is well documented.

It aligns extremely well with waves of elite replacement.
The most recent one was Greek traders brining the Greek pantheon in the early 1st millennium BC

The Romans didn't home growntheir gods.

Read some Mary Beard.


Oh my God. You completely misrepresented what I said. You answered my previous question, you are if fact deliberately being obtuse.
Posted by Mo Jeaux
Member since Aug 2008
63674 posts
Posted on 5/28/25 at 12:16 pm to
quote:

I actually know people who are.


Nice.
Posted by somethingdifferent
Member since Aug 2024
1940 posts
Posted on 5/28/25 at 1:13 pm to
quote:

Aren't up to date when Herod the Great died?


quote:

Sorry, it's not compatible with Matthew's accounts of Herod going after Jesus.

Luke/Matthew's account, together, is not possible.
This is the kind if disingenuous response that illuminates people's motivations - making an objective assertion without even addressing the several possibilities that have been proposed. Nope, just pick the ONE that is antithetical to the Bible and then stomp your foot saying "It's THIS interpretation and no other."

Moreover, your response misses the point entirely. This is yet another case where archaeology corroborated someone mentioned in the Bible but not in any other source.
Posted by somethingdifferent
Member since Aug 2024
1940 posts
Posted on 5/28/25 at 1:14 pm to
quote:

Do you believe that the earth is 6,000 year old?
"Believe" is one thing. Making an assertion without any sort of proof whatsoever is SFP's domain
Posted by somethingdifferent
Member since Aug 2024
1940 posts
Posted on 5/28/25 at 1:18 pm to
quote:

The "Really? You were there?" line is so rich because it's coming from someone who probably bases his entire life on a single event that occurred 2000 years ago, for which he wasn't there to see himself
I do not. However, it's irrelevant. I'm not running around saying "the earth is x years old and I'm emotionally committed to that stance." The point is no one was there and can say for sure. Some things seem to look a certain way but that's not conclusive evidence, no matter how many people side with that view.
Posted by somethingdifferent
Member since Aug 2024
1940 posts
Posted on 5/28/25 at 1:21 pm to
quote:

I didn’t cite an article
You cited an article from Brittanica

quote:

which you just summarily dismissed
I most certainly did no such thing

quote:

AI-generated mess
Now THAT'S a scholarly response. Don't deal with the content. Just throw out that genetic fallacy

quote:

any historical or archeological evidence that doesn’t point to a biblical story being 100% literally true
Like what?

quote:

I’m losing my interest in even having a discussion with you
Well let us know when you grow up and want to have a grown up conversation instead of stomping away when your elementary school citations don't work out the way you want. Like the article that you cited that didn't even agree with your point
Posted by somethingdifferent
Member since Aug 2024
1940 posts
Posted on 5/28/25 at 1:40 pm to
quote:

These accounts are written down centuries later
Ah yes, the old Ehrman's telephone game. It works at the popular level but scholars don't really buy that. Not even Ehrman who will tell you in person that he believes the Bible is essentially 100% reliable

IOW, "written down later" does not equal false nor does it injure the transmission process. As in, the Canaanite culture of polytheism did not exist prior to the Hebrew monotheism in that they were originally polytheists, at least as far as the evidence itt has been discussed

quote:

Why would the people who have the monotheism developed from the Canaanite polytheism want to project a (dishonest) history that they're completely separate from the polytheistic heretics?
You can't even see that this moronic question underscores the absurdity of the idea in general.

quote:

to create a distinct legitimacy for that population
Why would they want/need to do that when they really weren't distinct to begin with. You really can't think this through. The whole idea is massively stupid. As I said, it's like Americans trying to convince themselves the country was borne from Communism in order to distinguish themselves from the evil democratic Europeans

quote:

in competitive religious scenarios
But they weren't "competitive" according to the idea. They were the same, remember? What you're talking about is totally different. They would have waged war with their gods on the standard and having faith that their "gods" were superior. But even that is stupid because they allegedly had the same gods. The whole thing makes no sense whatsoever from a socio-cultural standpoint.

quote:

After the centuries of evolution into the "Israelites"
This is glossing over a WHOLE BUNCH of necessary info and you're just skipping to a completely ad hoc conclusion.

quote:

That's why they made up the origin story to differentiate themselves and emphasized their new religion to further castigate the heretical "out group"
Like I said, you're skipping a TON of questions. Why did they do this to begin with? What did they think they were going to gain by doing this? How did they convince their culture to do a religious 180 and then lie to them about their past? How did all of the cultural themes and ecclesiology come into being?

Utter nonsense

quote:

almost all of them created specific origin myths
The history of the biblical people is NOTHING like any of the other ANE cultures. Not even close. Not the Enuma Elish. Not the code of Hammurabi.

Again, you are trying to wade into waters that you apparently know nothing about yet you are slinging around conclusions like you know something. It's laughable
Posted by somethingdifferent
Member since Aug 2024
1940 posts
Posted on 5/28/25 at 1:45 pm to
quote:

hellbent on believing the obscenely incorrect no matter what
There are people like this. But that doesn't refute that there are YEC thinkers who do have reasons for their beliefs. They do raise some interesting and important questions. But I get that you are emotionally committed to your view and can only blithely dismiss their claims

quote:

You can prove that documents are spurious fraud
Really? When was this done?

quote:

It is as though the blind loyalty trumps any real sensibilities
Do you know that there are scientists and philosphers who work at secular universities who are religious? Let me guess, you think they are "compartmentalizing" because you can read their minds, right?

It's astonishing that some people have such hubris and act like they have the intellectual high ground without ever actually showing they do
Posted by somethingdifferent
Member since Aug 2024
1940 posts
Posted on 5/28/25 at 1:46 pm to
quote:

me cutting through some of the red tape with a few of these guys
Ok 14th amendment "expert"
Posted by somethingdifferent
Member since Aug 2024
1940 posts
Posted on 5/28/25 at 1:47 pm to
quote:

The Roman census of Judea took place on 6 AD
Wow. You know something objectively true that not even historical experts know for sure. That's amazing
Posted by somethingdifferent
Member since Aug 2024
1940 posts
Posted on 5/28/25 at 1:50 pm to
quote:

how do you square a 6,000 year old earth with the fossil record of dinosaurs?
It's amazing that you think YEC doesn't have an answer for this. They make the case that radio carbon dating is known to be less than 100% accurate at longer historical periods for multiple reasons.
Posted by somethingdifferent
Member since Aug 2024
1940 posts
Posted on 5/28/25 at 1:51 pm to
quote:

they had to jump through so many mental hoops to reconcile their beliefs with reality
I see many, many non Christians doing the same thing. Ignoring the obvious
Posted by somethingdifferent
Member since Aug 2024
1940 posts
Posted on 5/28/25 at 1:53 pm to
quote:

Mo Jeaux is doing a good job of dismantling his argument
I've made several responses that have gone unanswered
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