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re: DNA analysis shows that Jews and Arabs Descended from Canaanites
Posted on 5/27/25 at 2:48 pm to extremetigerfanatic
Posted on 5/27/25 at 2:48 pm to extremetigerfanatic
quote:
to show that the Bible isn’t true.
That's a bit dramatic.
"The OT not being a historical document" is a more accurate way to describe the argument.
Just because the OT isn't a historical document doesn't invalidate monotheism. I mean hell, even if Israelites were Canaanites who evolved their gods into Yahweh the singular, it doesn't necessarily invalidate Judaism reflecting the will of a God-like god (who may or may not have sent Jesus and/or Mohammed to further his message later).
The only people this would affect are those who believe in Biblical literalism, which is silliness to most educated Christians.
1
Posted on 5/27/25 at 2:48 pm to extremetigerfanatic
quote:
This entire thread is here to use this study to show that the Bible isn’t true.
No it isn’t.
Posted on 5/27/25 at 3:16 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:Laugh. Who is "we?" Like you have some team or something.
What we are saying is
quote:Thank you for backtracking from an objective assertion to subjective whining that you don't have what you think you should have.
the evidence doesn't line up and there is very little, if any, evidence to support these specific Biblical narratives
I will ask again, what would serve as evidence TO YOU? Perhaps the most dangerous question on the internet. HA.
quote:? Completely untrue
What evidence we do have, with new evidence like the DNA testing, is painting a different picture
quote:No, you have it backwards as other people have tried to point out to you. Canaanite religion did not predate Hebrew religion. As for the DNA aspect, the 2 peoples were originally 1 people group that splintered.
That Israelites were simply Canaanites who splintered and ultimately evolved the traditional Canaanite religion over time into Judaism
You get raked across the coals in legal threads and you at least know how to access legal resources. You should probably avoid biblical discussions and just observe without forming strong opinions until you are much better educated.
Posted on 5/27/25 at 3:27 pm to L.A.
quote:It means this nearly ancient "gotcha" hasn't swayed archaeology one bit.
I have no idea what that means
quote:Exactly. Pretty much none of them are running around denying the exodus/Hebrews in Egypt narrative. They are fully aware of what evidence does exist and are ok with it. Then there are people like Finkelstein who has made an entire case out of "I'm just not seeing it."
There are hundreds of modern archeologists, both Christian and Jewish, whose careers are devoted to excavating the areas mentioned in the Bible. There's a modern magazine (Biblical Archeology, which is cited in the OP) that is 100% devoted to the ongoing archeology of the Biblical territory.
quote:Completely false. There are proposed northern and southern routes but no one knows for sure.
We do know the route
quote:Such as? Let's cut to the chase - you're going to produce a very subjective list that has been hashed out a million times in the last 150 years and totally ignore that we don't know the route which prevents people from knowing where to dig to find the purported evidence. Did you know we also don't know when it happened? Similarly, there are proposed early and late timelines which also complicates the search. Moreover you will probably ignore what evidence has already been proposed and say "WAHHH. IT'S NOT ENOUGH. WAHHH."
Evidence of the life and death of 3 million people in a very compact 40 year period
Posted on 5/27/25 at 3:28 pm to somethingdifferent
quote:
No, you have it backwards as other people have tried to point out to you. Canaanite religion did not predate Hebrew religion. As for the DNA aspect, the 2 peoples were originally 1 people group that splintered.
The Hebrew religion was the Canaanite religion. They were the same. The Bible doesn’t describe them as originally one group of people that splintered.
Posted on 5/27/25 at 3:34 pm to L.A.
quote:Whoa. Are you new around here? SFP is widely considered by far the worst personality on this board.
SFP has shown the patience of Job in dealing with you
And SFP is not "dealing" with me. SFP is a total fraud and disingenuous. Several questions have gone unanswered as usual and how in the world can you be unaware that SFP has made claims from a completely uneducated position and is recalcitrant when asked to substantiate them.
This behavior is completely typical and happens nearly daily on this board.
And calling someone genius is hardly an insult. You should read what Jesus called the Pharisees
Posted on 5/27/25 at 3:35 pm to L.A.
quote:In general this is completely false but perhaps you could be more specific on what particular aspects of culture you are referring to
Canaanite culture predates Abraham by at least 1500 years
Posted on 5/27/25 at 3:36 pm to Mo Jeaux
quote:And that false perspective has since been corrected by several people
evidence to support my assertions is literally in the OP.
Posted on 5/27/25 at 3:41 pm to Mo Jeaux
quote:I see you making this claim but I'm not seeing any sort of scholarly survey to back it up. How about you list all the scholars you surveyed or perhaps cite all the relevant journal articles.
the historical consensus is that the Israelites/Canaanites were not initially monotheistic
Posted on 5/27/25 at 3:43 pm to Mo Jeaux
quote:That's a colorful way of looking at the situation but even the info in the OP doesn't necessarily support that view
It’s that they were Canaanites. They had the same language, same cultural practices, and same religious beliefs, until a group of them decided that they’d start focusing on Yahweh as their primary god. Flash forward, and that group eventually decided that not only was Yahweh their primary god, he was the only god
Posted on 5/27/25 at 3:46 pm to L.A.
quote:
Canaanite culture predates Abraham by at least 1500 years
Wasn't it Abraham who fathered both Ishmael and Isaac?
Posted on 5/27/25 at 3:47 pm to Tchefuncte Tiger
quote:
Wasn't it Abraham who fathered both Ishmael and Isaac?
Yes
Posted on 5/27/25 at 3:51 pm to L.A.
So no genocide...
Posted on 5/27/25 at 3:52 pm to L.A.
quote:
From brittanica.com
quote:You must have skipped over this part. Meaning the Israelites had a distinct people group and culture prior to the conquest.
The Canaanites inhabited the land of Canaan before and during the time of the Israelite conquest
quote:SOME say that. Not all.
Bible scholars say that Abraham was born sometime around 1900 BC.
quote:But this only works of course if you operate from the assumption that Hebrew/Israelite culture started in 1900.
3500 BC is over 1500 years before 1900 BC
So now we know where you got your mistaken assumption from. This would be a good time for you to backtrack and take a more agnostic position
Posted on 5/27/25 at 3:54 pm to extremetigerfanatic
quote:Excellent point. The aspect of lacunae gets glossed over often in these DNA studies
They did so with 50% efficacy
Posted on 5/27/25 at 3:58 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:This is the kind of dilettante bullcrap that people dislike you for. You have no idea what you're talking about and you don't support these nonsense statements
The only people this would affect are those who believe in Biblical literalism, which is silliness to most educated Christians
Posted on 5/27/25 at 3:58 pm to somethingdifferent
quote:
I see you making this claim but I'm not seeing any sort of scholarly survey to back it up. How about you list all the scholars you surveyed or perhaps cite all the relevant journal articles.
“All” the relevant journal articles? Look, it’s a widely accepted view. Start with Mark Smith’s The Early History of God and The Origins of Biblical Monotheism. They’re relatively accessible. The Old Testament also contains remnants of polytheism if you’re not predisposed to rejecting them because they offend you.
Posted on 5/27/25 at 4:00 pm to somethingdifferent
quote:
You must have skipped over this part. Meaning the Israelites had a distinct people group and culture prior to the conquest.
Wrong.
Posted on 5/27/25 at 4:40 pm to L.A.
quote:That is what I am saying.
If you want to argue that Abraham never actually lived, that of course is a possibility. Some would say a probability.
The born 1900 BCE is grabbed from out of nowhere.
at least by most published researchers.
Same with Moses.
Posted on 5/27/25 at 4:51 pm to FriendofBaruch
quote:
The born 1900 BCE is grabbed from out of nowhere.
It’s grabbed from biblical genealogies, which is part of the topic we’re discussing
Whether or not he is an historical figure is another topic
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