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Message
re: Dash cam video of Philando Castile killing
Posted on 6/20/17 at 7:15 pm to WaWaWeeWa
Posted on 6/20/17 at 7:15 pm to WaWaWeeWa
quote:
Wrong
99% of the population doesn't reach behind their waistband WHILE SIMULTANEOUSLY announcing they have a gun. That was a very mediocre strawman
He announced it first...and is SUPPOSED to announce it as concealed carry.
Who the frick is going to do harm...and announce it first?
Hey, just letting you know I have a gun...and I'm seated and you're standing over me and have ALL the advantage to easily take me out...but I'm going to tell you that I have a gun and then try to shoot you.
Your assertion is absurd.
2
Posted on 6/20/17 at 7:16 pm to troyt37
quote:
That means nothing. Cops kill innocent people all the time who are no threat to them
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hyperbole, it's what's for dinner
It's not hyperbole
Posted on 6/20/17 at 7:18 pm to WaWaWeeWa
quote:
This is based on statistics and stories that police officers hear every day.
I think most police officers grossly overestimate their danger on a micro level.
Posted on 6/20/17 at 7:20 pm to troyt37
quote:
Hyperbole, it's what's for dinner
Do cops kill more people who aren't a threat than cops that are feloniously killed in a year?
Give me your best guess estimate of both numbers. And don't check ODMP.
Posted on 6/20/17 at 7:20 pm to RogerTheShrubber
The only thing you can really say that Castile misjudged was not saying that he was going for his papers.
That is a capital offense to many here, and many are okay with that.
Our justice system is broken because if the MENTALITY of those that make the system, not the system itself
That is a capital offense to many here, and many are okay with that.
Our justice system is broken because if the MENTALITY of those that make the system, not the system itself
Posted on 6/20/17 at 7:20 pm to the808bass
quote:
Nope. Just find it interesting. The reason stereotypes exist is because there's some truth to them. Japanese tourists do take shite tons of pictures. Lots of women can't park for shite. I don't want to remove the "lizard brain" from the repertoire of a police officer. But if they frick up, admit they fricked up. And let them face the consequences.
I agree with all of this. I'm not really qualified to say what consequences he deserves.
But I know enough to know this isn't "racism" (which you already stated), which is what most on your side of the argument are saying.
It does have to do with race. But the solution of decreasing crime in black neighborhoods is an easier problem to solve than changing human nature
Posted on 6/20/17 at 7:22 pm to RogerTheShrubber
You live in AK?
There was a case I read where a cop shot some homeless guy who was living in this car and had no legs. Vet, I think.
Cops didn't want him sleeping in this car and rolled up on him in the middle of the night. He was sleeping and the the cop banged on the window and the old man woke up and rolled down the window and the cop told him he can't sleep there.
So the old guy with no legs - starts the car and puts a cane on the accelerator to move the car...and the cop shoots him immediately.
And later says he thought the car could have hit his partner who was standing 10 yards away in front of the cruiser.
The man had no legs, was confused and who can't get out of the way of a car coming at you going 5 MPH?
There was a case I read where a cop shot some homeless guy who was living in this car and had no legs. Vet, I think.
Cops didn't want him sleeping in this car and rolled up on him in the middle of the night. He was sleeping and the the cop banged on the window and the old man woke up and rolled down the window and the cop told him he can't sleep there.
So the old guy with no legs - starts the car and puts a cane on the accelerator to move the car...and the cop shoots him immediately.
And later says he thought the car could have hit his partner who was standing 10 yards away in front of the cruiser.
The man had no legs, was confused and who can't get out of the way of a car coming at you going 5 MPH?
Posted on 6/20/17 at 7:22 pm to the808bass
quote:
I think most police officers grossly overestimate their danger on a micro level.
Again, human nature. Common cognitive biases that I'm sure police officers are not aware. Still an impossible problem to solve.
Posted on 6/20/17 at 7:23 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
His gun had no round in the chamber
Having a round chambered isn't a requirement to unholster a pistol.
quote:
he was going for his papers
Maybe. What he certainly wasn't doing was following direction.
quote:
In fact, the witness said his hands were going up.
Which witness?
quote:
Looking at the wound, it makes sense.
What is it about the wound that proves your assertion?
Posted on 6/20/17 at 7:23 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:
Maybe. I certainly don't think getting shot likely crossed Castile's mind until it happened.
I understand that cops have a hard job sometimes. There are 'good' cops and 'bad' cops. Just like with anything else in the world you have good and bad. I don't even think this cop was 'bad' in any sense of the word. I think he was timid, tense, and became unnerved at the sound of a concealed weapon. His training (if any of merit) kicked in and instead of realizing this guy actually told him he had a concealed weapon after he asked for his license and registration; he instead of thinking he was getting his license out of his wallet he was instinctively witted to believe he was reaching for his gun.
That is how tepid and insecure (I don't mean that in a derogatory manner) cops have become because of all the violence against police these days.
The old adage, "The chicken or the egg" comes to mind. What came first? The danger from cops or the danger from citizens against cops.
What is unfortunate is that nothing of substance will come of this case to help deter this type of instance from happening: no training will change and the mindset of most cops will not change along with the public.
There are places around the country where cops are attempting to mingle and become more apart of the community to show support and common ground. If we are to make inroads it is time again where the cops become familiar faces of kindness and servitude to those of the younger generations so that when they get older their respect and admiration (along with knowing the cops themselves in their area) is amplified to a degree that the threat of violence against either plummets to nill.
That is wishful thinking and those days are long gone. The day and age where the police and the community are one is broke. It is not police and then the community and the idea of who they serve to protect is questioned by many.
I just read where two cops in Los Angeles shot a man who was flagging the cops down for help. He had no gun; the cops thought (or claimed) he had a gun, and shot him straight in the head. I'll attempt to get the link as I was told this story by the significant other.
As I said, I do not think cops are out to be violent or are 'bad'. I think most are trained to distrust the public and not be friends with any. That their lives are constantly in danger (always have been) and that it is shoot first (without fear of recourse in most instances) which sets a horrible precedent for action that otherwise would likely not commence. How else can you explain away actions over the last few years of many cops around the nation regardless of gender, class, race?
In ending I will add that anytime, anytime at all, when I am pulled over I show my hands. I place my hands directly over the steering wheel if I am the driver or directly on the dashboard to be seen. I don't move. I don't budge. If a cop asks for my license or registration I am slow and I don't say a word. I'd say most of us on this site are of a level of intelligence that we know this intuitively. But, not everyone is as knowledgeable or has a healthy respect for those situations in general. I don't move until asked, but first before anything I tell him I have a weapon as my hands are on the wheel. I don't budge. Can't stress that enough. I don't move until asked.
I can't believe I live in a day in age where I must fear for my life just being pulled over, not because the officer is evil or is a threat, but because the situation itself has garnered itself a threat to us both. That when a cop is called out to my house, as they were awhile back, I sense stress instead of calmness; questioning instead of trust; from both sides.
Posted on 6/20/17 at 7:24 pm to the808bass
quote:
Nope. Just find it interesting. The reason stereotypes exist is because there's some truth to them. Japanese tourists do take shite tons of pictures. Lots of women can't park for shite. I don't want to remove the "lizard brain" from the repertoire of a police officer.
Okay but is it just the truth that matters your the reasons behind the truth. You're trying to mitigate nuance out of human life, and that's the one thIng that separates us from animals.
Stereotypes do exist for a reason, but actually knowing why they exist and how and why they are perpetuated is what really matters.
Simpletons don't wanna do the higher level thinking tho
Posted on 6/20/17 at 7:24 pm to WaWaWeeWa
quote:
It does have to do with race. But the solution of decreasing crime in black neighborhoods is an easier problem to solve than changing human nature
But let's be careful here. St. Anthony is kind a sleepy little township in the Twin Cities. It has 8,000 some inhabitants and is only 5% African American. It's only had one murder in about 10 years. It's not "the big city." So extrapolating to the problems of "the black ghetto" just doesn't work in this instance. Yanez didn't deal with really any of that on a daily basis.
Posted on 6/20/17 at 7:24 pm to mizzoubuckeyeiowa
quote:
SUPPOSED to announce it as concealed carry.
Still wrong.
Posted on 6/20/17 at 7:24 pm to mizzoubuckeyeiowa
quote:
He announced it first...and is SUPPOSED to announce it as concealed carry.
When you say "first" you imply there is a second step. That is correct.
The second step is: don't move (especially when told not to), or ask for instructions on what to do next
You conveniently left that out
Posted on 6/20/17 at 7:24 pm to StrongSafety
quote:
Okay but is it just the truth that matters your the reasons behind the truth. You're trying to mitigate nuance out of human life, and that's the one thIng that separates us from animals.
Stfu, idiot.
Posted on 6/20/17 at 7:25 pm to WaWaWeeWa
quote:
especially when told not to
He wasn't told to not move.
Posted on 6/20/17 at 7:26 pm to WaWaWeeWa
quote:
Again, human nature. Common cognitive biases that I'm sure police officers are not aware. Still an impossible problem to solve.
Weed out the weenies.
Posted on 6/20/17 at 7:27 pm to WaWaWeeWa
quote:
Common cognitive biases that I'm sure police officers are not aware. Still an impossible problem to solve.
But it's not impossible to address on the back end. Sitting around, yelling "good shoot," isn't the answer. Cops may figure that out some day. They may not.
Posted on 6/20/17 at 7:27 pm to StrongSafety
I especially love his woman just sitting there video taping it insead of trying to help him.
Posted on 6/20/17 at 7:28 pm to the808bass
quote:
But let's be careful here. St. Anthony is kind a sleepy little township in the Twin Cities. It has 8,000 some inhabitants and is only 5% African American. It's only had one murder in about 10 years. It's not "the big city." So extrapolating to the problems of "the black ghetto" just doesn't work in this instance. Yanez didn't deal with really any of that on a daily basis.
That's a very valid point. Like I said, this guy was bad at his job.
He also is probably very aware of the crime statistics pertaining to black males, in addition to the fact that an armed robbery was recently committed by someone who fit this guy's description
None of that should be an excuse for what he did. But it goes back to the "human nature" aspect which may just be enough to push the situation into one that has a bad outcome. Again, we can't solve the human nature problem.
We can only change the culture of crime in black communities
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