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Cruel and unusual punishment
Posted on 12/13/19 at 9:51 pm
Posted on 12/13/19 at 9:51 pm
How bad is it really? A free society is unlikely to use sickening punishments for minor crimes, but if C&UP weren’t banned, we could torture child rapists and serial killers.
The framers has no idea what kind of sick fricks we would have to deal with.
The framers has no idea what kind of sick fricks we would have to deal with.
11
Posted on 12/13/19 at 9:54 pm to baybeefeetz
Posted on 12/13/19 at 10:01 pm to baybeefeetz
quote:says a lot about you, ya know?
but if C&UP weren’t banned, we could torture child rapists and serial killers.
Posted on 12/13/19 at 10:04 pm to arcalades
yeah it says I think child molesters deserve torture and torturing child molesters would tend to prevent child molestation. I didn’t say I would want to do it. Somebody would, though.
Posted on 12/13/19 at 10:17 pm to baybeefeetz
Call me a pessimist, but I’m pretty sure there were murderers and child rapists in the framers’ time. I suspect there have been sick fricks for about as long as there have been people.
Posted on 12/13/19 at 10:19 pm to baybeefeetz
quote:
The framers has no idea what kind of sick fricks we would have to deal with.
Posted on 12/13/19 at 10:32 pm to baybeefeetz
Cruel and unusual is not the same as cruel or unusual.
It can be cruel or unusual, as long as it isn't both at the same time, and still be constitutional.
It can be cruel or unusual, as long as it isn't both at the same time, and still be constitutional.
Posted on 12/13/19 at 10:43 pm to baybeefeetz
One of the primary arguments against what you're talking about, also capital punishment, is the potential for doling out that punishment to someone who is actually not guilty of the crime, that the risk of bad convictions is too hreat even if it happens to just a small handful of people.
After the events of the last 3 years, I'm certainly no less skeptical of unjustified prosecution, and people willing to be untruthful under oath, etc etc. Much more skeptical actually.
There's no lack of reports on people convicted of horrific crimes who, come to find out, didn't do it. Even confessions to crimes the individual really didn't commit. "The Confession Killer" is interesting and relevant to that subject, can currently be found on Netflix.
After the events of the last 3 years, I'm certainly no less skeptical of unjustified prosecution, and people willing to be untruthful under oath, etc etc. Much more skeptical actually.
There's no lack of reports on people convicted of horrific crimes who, come to find out, didn't do it. Even confessions to crimes the individual really didn't commit. "The Confession Killer" is interesting and relevant to that subject, can currently be found on Netflix.
Posted on 12/13/19 at 11:01 pm to baybeefeetz
quote:
Cruel and unusual punishment
In the minds of the framers, executing someone convicted of a crime was neither cruel and or unusual. Hangings and firing squads are relatively quick methods for dispensing justice. In terms of cruel and unusual punishments, I believe the framers hand in mind anything that was purposefully carried out to maximize the pain and suffering of a convicted person over an extended period of time leading to a slow agonizing death. So to your point about being able to torture child rapists and serial killers if C&UP wasn't banned, yes we could, which is exactly why the framers banned it. It is a principal that allows us to dispense the ultimate punishment (taking another man's life) without becoming a cruel and sadistic society
Posted on 12/14/19 at 7:55 am to Blizzard of Chizz
You think it isn't bad but wait until you get sentenced to watching 120 episodes of The View after being convicted of urinating in public.
Posted on 12/14/19 at 8:04 am to baybeefeetz
Until I changed offices I could hear the View every day from the breakroom.
Who says C&U punishment isn't administered in this country?
I like to listen to it for 5 minutes every 3 years or so to remind myself how glad I am I am not married but that is the max for me.
Who says C&U punishment isn't administered in this country?
I like to listen to it for 5 minutes every 3 years or so to remind myself how glad I am I am not married but that is the max for me.
Posted on 12/14/19 at 8:40 am to Blizzard of Chizz
quote:I do not always agree with you, but this post was as well-written as anything I have ever read here.
In the minds of the framers, executing someone convicted of a crime was neither cruel and or unusual. Hangings and firing squads are relatively quick methods for dispensing justice. In terms of cruel and unusual punishments, I believe the framers hand in mind anything that was purposefully carried out to maximize the pain and suffering of a convicted person over an extended period of time leading to a slow agonizing death. So to your point about being able to torture child rapists and serial killers if C&UP wasn't banned, yes we could, which is exactly why the framers banned it. It is a principal that allows us to dispense the ultimate punishment (taking another man's life) without becoming a cruel and sadistic society
Posted on 12/14/19 at 8:48 am to baybeefeetz
quote:
The framers has no idea what kind of sick fricks we would have to deal with.
Modern no reading of history people
Posted on 12/14/19 at 8:50 am to Blizzard of Chizz
quote:
quote:
Cruel and unusual punishment
In the minds of the framers, executing someone convicted of a crime was neither cruel and or unusual. Hangings and firing squads are relatively quick methods for dispensing justice. In terms of cruel and unusual punishments, I believe the framers hand in mind anything that was purposefully carried out to maximize the pain and suffering of a convicted person over an extended period of time leading to a slow agonizing death. So to your point about being able to torture child rapists and serial killers if C&UP wasn't banned, yes we could, which is exactly why the framers banned it. It is a principal that allows us to dispense the ultimate punishment (taking another man's life) without becoming a cruel and sadistic society
Well stated.
While I would not hesitate to administer "cruel and unusual" punishment myself to someone who had raped and murdered my young grandchild, I would not want to do it to someone else - regardless of the crime.
As for me - I'd sacrifice my own life to administer 'ultimate justice' to someone who violated one of my loved ones = regardless of what the "justice system" said.
However, I do not want the official policy of such C&U punishment to be in effect - one only has to look at the excesses of this DEMOCRAT HoR to see what evil could be codified in the future if allowed.
BTW - if I was on a jury trial about some individual doing what I said I'd do myself I't vote not guilty = depending of course on the precise details of the offense/response.
The official policy cannot - must not - be allowed to administer Cruel and Unusual punishments. = And I define that as abject torture over a long period of time.
Actually - I'd like to see some kind of public shaming be administered for many offenses - especially when involving people in political power.
This post was edited on 12/14/19 at 8:54 am
Posted on 12/14/19 at 8:57 am to baybeefeetz
quote:
The framers has no idea what kind of sick fricks we would have to deal with.
I agree with you here. The shite that put 10 bullets in the cop's head while sitting in his car the other day in Arkansas deserves cruel punishment for what he did.
Posted on 12/14/19 at 10:13 am to baybeefeetz
quote:
The framers has no idea what kind of sick fricks we would have to deal with.
Oh, they knew all about sick fricks. That's why they didn't consider hanging to be cruel or unusual. Europe was famous for developing new ways to torture people.
BTW, there was a hangman who got rich with a terrific innovation of the guillotine. Those things were expensive to build and were rarely used. So, he invented a portable one that could be drawn to your town by horses.
Posted on 12/14/19 at 10:21 am to Blizzard of Chizz
quote:
without becoming a cruel and sadistic society
We already are this. Amazing how we have no major concern dropping bombs and killing innocent people along with the bad guys, but when we convict sick, sick people beyond a reasonable doubt all of a sudden we are worried about our morals.
Look, this thread was not a troll but maybe just trying to get some alternative discussion going.
But I do think that we are sick eno if h already as a society that harshing it up a bit would not make things worse.
Posted on 12/14/19 at 10:24 am to baybeefeetz
So what are you proposing exactly? As in what actions would go with what crimes?
Posted on 12/14/19 at 12:29 pm to SCLibertarian
Ser Barristan Selmy. One of my favorite characters in GoT.
This post was edited on 12/14/19 at 12:29 pm
Posted on 12/14/19 at 1:40 pm to baybeefeetz
quote:
We already are this. Amazing how we have no major concern dropping bombs and killing innocent people along with the bad guys, but when we convict sick, sick people beyond a reasonable doubt all of a sudden we are worried about our morals.
You are lumping war and capital punishment into one category when they are two completely different situations. Even war has rules that if not followed can lead to a soldier being executed.. There are quick ways to dispense justice and then there is the slow agonizing torturous way advocated in the OP. A civilized society does not need to condemn a man to death by slowly dismembering him or dragging him behind a car or stoning or stretching him on the rack or by crucifixion or any other barbaric means. They can however administer justice in a relatively quick manner and maintain their humanity.
Also in regards to war, we have moved way past bombing indiscriminately to more precise targeting of combatants while taking great care to minimize civilian casualties. That’s a much different strategy than 40 50 or 75 years ago when we leveled entire German cities and carpet bombed the jungles of Vietnam.
This post was edited on 12/14/19 at 1:46 pm
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