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re: Correlation: Prayer out of schools to increase in mass shootings
Posted on 2/27/18 at 10:17 am to OMLandshark
Posted on 2/27/18 at 10:17 am to OMLandshark
quote:
Prayers in school didn’t help shite, and you’re a nutcase if you think this was what was holding them back.
It isn't the ending of prayer in schools that is the problem per se. But, rather it is a symptom of the moral decay in society in general. Same as the acceptance of abortion as ok and the presentation of sexual deviance as a normal occurrence. Once you reject the concept of God as a higher moral authority then any and all behavior is ok.
2
Posted on 2/27/18 at 10:20 am to ljhog
(no message)
This post was edited on 5/27/23 at 2:49 pm
Posted on 2/27/18 at 10:27 am to DelU249
quote:
not at all the case
If not, then we are at the whims of man and we already see where that is leading us.
I know we normally get into the circular discussion of morality, but do you think the human species is inherently "good"? And if you do, why would we need laws to keep us from doing "evil"?
Posted on 2/27/18 at 10:36 am to Azkiger
quote:
How many socities can you name that would allow you to kill whomever you wanted.
Sorry, you don't get to move the goalposts like that. I said that 'Thou shalt not murder' isn't a universal moral law. You asserted it was. Now you want examples of a society that would let you murder indiscriminately?
Doesn't work that way. See, here is how it works. On one end of the spectrum, we are made In God's image snd murder is an absolute wrong...on the other can murder indiscriminately and you have anarchy. There is a lot of middle ground between those two views.
The way it usually goes is once you reject "Thou shalt not murder" as absolute moral law, it becomes "Thou shalt not murder except ____."
In sharia compliant societies that blank gets filled with "non-Muslims." In Nazi Germany, "Jews." In pagan tribal Africa and amongst the Indians (native Americans), "other tribes." In modern pagan American, "unborn children."
Hope that helps clear it up for you.
This post was edited on 2/27/18 at 11:02 am
Posted on 2/27/18 at 10:41 am to Lg
quote:
So am I. So we're both good.
Yep, but only one of us is using the point that someone else is going to the bad Magicland because they don't believe in nonsense.
Posted on 2/27/18 at 10:42 am to bayoumuscle21
First, I'd be hesitant to follow any God that would force so many children to be brutally murdered because their parents wouldn't allow them to pray out loud. And I say that as a Christian.
Secondly, does the same apply to Church shootings? Not enough prayer?
Secondly, does the same apply to Church shootings? Not enough prayer?
This post was edited on 2/27/18 at 10:43 am
Posted on 2/27/18 at 10:47 am to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:
but only one of us is using the point that someone else is going to the bad Magicland because they don't believe in nonsense.
See, this is where I can't understand the logic of atheist? Why would you be concerned about the bad Magicland if it's nonsense? I only said there is a difference. You automatically went to the bad Magicland comment.
Posted on 2/27/18 at 10:52 am to Lg
quote:
Why would you be concerned about the bad Magicland if it's nonsense?
You mistake my comments. I'm not concerned. Your point was stupid. I'm just making that known.
Posted on 2/27/18 at 10:57 am to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:
Your point was stupid. I'm just making that known.
Ah yes. The old standard. So original. God loves you!!
Posted on 2/27/18 at 10:58 am to bayoumuscle21
quote:
Correlation
Does not equal causation.
Posted on 2/27/18 at 11:00 am to Lg
quote:
Why would you be concerned about the bad Magicland if it's nonsense?
Do you mean concerned as in REALLY concerned about it as a possibility? As an atheist, I'm not. Same way you are unconcerned about anything said by Muslims and you being an infidel in their eyes. Right?
In terms of its effect on my daily life, I am concerned because we still live in a country that is a vast majority religious and a vast majority of that being Christian. And even though I find those worldviews as silly as you would find a worldview based on the Tolkein novels being real I'm forced to deal with them in one form or another.
I understand that's hard for you or any believer to understand because to you it's 100% true, but that's the viewpoint from my side. If I never ever heard another word about gods or religions I'd give it no more thought than I currently do fairies or trolls living under bridges. If, however, 75% of the American people professed to believe in fairies and voted in such a way so as to force their faerie viewpoint on to me, I'd have to engage it.
And you understand that as well. My feeling like I have to concern myself with something I personally don't believe in is in no way some indication I ACTUALLY believe, but merely an indication that I have to engage...just as you would if some worldview you thought was absolutely not true was the current viewpoint of most of America.
Posted on 2/27/18 at 11:01 am to Lg
I don't need to reinvent the wheel if you're not going to offer anything new or interesting.
Posted on 2/27/18 at 11:18 am to ljhog
quote:
Once you reject the concept of God as a higher moral authority then any and all behavior is ok.
This concept always makes me smile. I once heard Rick Warren say something to the effect that were it not for his faith he'd run around and rape and murder.
And somehow, it's the nonbeliever that has the issue?
It's hilarious. I don't rape and murder because I care about the lives of other human beings and if my actions would harm them in some way I try not to. Not because I'm being judged from on high and my actions will either be judged worthy of eternal happiness or poorly enough for eternal damnation. Warren seems only to be held in check by being watched and judged...otherwise he'd be a raping machine!
Reminds me of one of my favorite sayings...that character is doing the right thing even when no one is looking. I believe the first person I heard say that was former Oklahoma Congressman JC Watts...a very religious man. The irony, of course, is that a very religious man can simply not have character based on that definition as he's literally ALWAYS being watched and he's painfully aware of it. When an atheist does something nice when no one is looking, NO ONE is looking.
Posted on 2/27/18 at 11:31 am to GeauxTigerTM
quote:
I don't rape and murder because I care about the lives of other human beings and if my actions would harm them in some way I try not to
You're missing the point. I think the poster was trying to point out that you can't say your behavior is any more moral than Hitler's. All you can say is it's your opinion that it is. There's no objective reason you can say not harming others should be ideal.
Posted on 2/27/18 at 11:33 am to AUveritas
quote:
You're missing the point. I think the poster was trying to point out that you can't say your behavior is any more moral than Hitler's. All you can say is it's your opinion that it is. There's no objective reason you can say not harming others should be ideal.
That concept predates organized religion. Human society relies on certain concepts that don't take a higher power to impose.
The level of arrogance it takes to state a one true religion, and that the only way to be a good person is to be part of that religion, is staggering.
Posted on 2/27/18 at 11:37 am to Boatshoes
quote:
Sorry, you don't get to move the goalposts like that. I said that 'Thou shalt not murder' isn't a universal moral law. You asserted it was. Now you want examples of a society that would let you murder indiscriminately?
Who said the following? quote:
The thing is, "Thou shalt not murder." is a religious tenet.
Specifically, it is a Judeo-Christian tenet.
I jumped in mid-conversation and called bullshite. Now, I'll ask again, can you name all those non-Christian societies who just let you kill whomever you want?
quote:
The way it usually goes is once you reject "Thou shalt not murder" as absolute moral law, it becomes "Thou shalt not murder except ____."
Remind me again what religion allowed you to stone someone for picking up sticks on the wrong day of the week? So much for thou shalt not murder being an absolute moral law, picking up sticks on the wrong day of the week was all it took to break that absolute.
quote:
Hope that helps clear it up for you.
Why would you think that handwaving clears anything up?
Posted on 2/27/18 at 11:37 am to skrayper
quote:
That concept predates organized religion. Human society relies on certain concepts that don't take a higher power to impose.
How can we know a concept predates organized religion. Organized Religion goes back as far as human record.
Posted on 2/27/18 at 11:37 am to AUveritas
quote:
You're missing the point. I think the poster was trying to point out that you can't say your behavior is any more moral than Hitler's
I hope that wasn't the point, because it would be a silly one.
quote:
There's no objective reason you can say not harming others should be ideal.
Of course I can...the fact that other humans benefit from my not raping and murdering them. There's not an argument that could be made whereby raping and murdering would be ideal, even for my own self interests long term.
The flip side of this is when Christian apologists like William Lane Craig will be forced to argue for the morality of various horrendous actions by Biblical characters based solely on the fact that they were ordered to perform such actions by god...and by definition CAN NOT be immoral. Just following orders and whatnot...
Posted on 2/27/18 at 11:38 am to Boatshoes
quote:
The way it usually goes is once you reject "Thou shalt not murder" as absolute moral law, it becomes "Thou shalt not murder except ____."
Looks like you chose not to read the Old Testament. God commands the Jewish people to murder the frick out of lots of people, mostly because they were in the way.
Posted on 2/27/18 at 11:39 am to AUveritas
quote:
You're missing the point. I think the poster was trying to point out that you can't say your behavior is any more moral than Hitler's. All you can say is it's your opinion that it is. There's no objective reason you can say not harming others should be ideal.
Well the point is completely retarded. I don’t need a God King to tell me what is right or wrong. Seeing 9 millions people starving to death and throwing them into ovens is objectively evil. If humans only treated each other as the Nazis and Communists did, we wouldn’t last long.
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