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Started By
Message
Conservatism doesn’t always equal Christianity
Posted on 3/3/21 at 10:21 am
Posted on 3/3/21 at 10:21 am
Before I start, let me first say, I’m both patriotic and conservative, but that doesn’t necessarily translate to ideas compatible with Christianity.
It seems there is a common theme to connect the two, as if they are synonymous. Sometimes, they are indeed compatible, but at other times, they are not.
There appears to be a feeling on this board that conservatism and Christianity are the same thing.
On something like immigration, it might be easier for a person on the Left to make a scriptural argument on why they are right
citing Bible verses. I, on the other hand could site numerous reasons why unchecked immigration is problematic to me personally or to my country, but I don’t think I could use scripture to make my case?
Too often, I fall into the trap of
basing my positions, not on scripture first, but on the premise of how it affects me personally.
Ultimately, my allegiances aren’t to a country, president or even to the constitution, but to God.
I think it’s a point that’s often overlooked.
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Posted on 3/3/21 at 10:23 am to Revelator
Yeah, the founding fathers weren't all Christians. They were deists.
Posted on 3/3/21 at 10:29 am to Revelator
Agree. Jesus didn't talk much about politics. The Bible consistently instructs us to take care of the widowed, orphan, poor, and oppressed.
Democrats may have begun taking this role on through government intervention because Christians dropped the ball?
Democrats may have begun taking this role on through government intervention because Christians dropped the ball?
Posted on 3/3/21 at 10:29 am to Revelator
"All that wheezes is not asthma".
All Christians are not conservative. If fact, many are quite liberal in some of their social beliefs. Go to Church with a few. In my circle of Christian friends, I would say more lean to the more conservative views, though.
All Christians are not conservative. If fact, many are quite liberal in some of their social beliefs. Go to Church with a few. In my circle of Christian friends, I would say more lean to the more conservative views, though.
Posted on 3/3/21 at 10:32 am to Revelator
quote:
Before I start, let me first say, I’m both patriotic and conservative, but that doesn’t necessarily translate to ideas compatible with Christianity.
It seems there is a common theme to connect the two, as if they are synonymous. Sometimes, they are indeed compatible, but at other times, they are not.
There appears to be a feeling on this board that conservatism and Christianity are the same thing.
On something like immigration, it might be easier for a person on the Left to make a scriptural argument on why they are right
citing Bible verses. I, on the other hand could site numerous reasons why unchecked immigration is problematic to me personally or to my country, but I don’t think I could use scripture to make my case?
Too often, I fall into the trap of
basing my positions, not on scripture first, but on the premise of how it affects me personally.
Ultimately, my allegiances aren’t to a country, president or even to the constitution, but to God.
I think it’s a point that’s often overlooked.
Well, I've been making this case for years here! I'm an athiest that has ALWAYS found myself primarily on the right. I'd been a registered Republican since 1988 and voted straight line GOP/conservative in every election except for Edwards/Duke in 1992. I only wavered towards voting for the Libertarian candidate as the religious right began to try and suggest that in order to be under the right side of the tent you had to be on Team Jesus...or at least Team Yahweh for our Jewish friends!
My beliefs that place me on the right are all derived from logical positions that have nothing to do with there being a god or not.
Take someone like Heather MacDonald, who is I think the best voice the right has in regards to fighting back against Critical Race Theory. She calls herself a Secular Conservative. Practically the only thing she does not agree with religious conservatives about is their faith...so why beat her (or the rest of us) over the head with having to agree on that front and push us out when we ought to be finding as much common ground as possible at this point.
Posted on 3/3/21 at 10:33 am to Revelator
I agree with your premise.
Jesus advocated looking after one another and taking care of your fellow man. I agree with this. I don’t think he ever states that it is the government’s role to do this. We should do it on our own.
There’s the argument that he says, “Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar’s.” Fair enough. But he never says that we can’t appoint another Caesar who we might better fit our ideals.
Good OP.
Jesus advocated looking after one another and taking care of your fellow man. I agree with this. I don’t think he ever states that it is the government’s role to do this. We should do it on our own.
There’s the argument that he says, “Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar’s.” Fair enough. But he never says that we can’t appoint another Caesar who we might better fit our ideals.
Good OP.
This post was edited on 3/3/21 at 10:34 am
Posted on 3/3/21 at 10:38 am to Revelator
quote:
Conservatism doesn’t always equal Christianity
Correct, I’m agnostic and my views overwhelmingly align with conservatives, always have
Posted on 3/3/21 at 10:40 am to T1
If a family down the street is starving and I grab my gun, go to my neighbors, put the gun to their head and force them to give me 25 percent of their money. Then I take that money and by food for the hungry people. Who's virtuous in this scenario. Imo I would be a thief. We should give freely and not be forced against our will either way.
Posted on 3/3/21 at 10:45 am to Revelator
Specifically, on immigration, there is biblical support for caring for migrants and making sure human trafficking is stopped.
The shadow economy, human trafficking, and sex trade are all enhanced by unfettered immigration. Which of those are Christian?
The shadow economy, human trafficking, and sex trade are all enhanced by unfettered immigration. Which of those are Christian?
Posted on 3/3/21 at 10:46 am to GeauxTigerTM
quote:
My beliefs that place me on the right are all derived from logical positions that have nothing to do with there being a god or not.
That’s partially true. You can only use logic once you have a goal, and those goals are based on your values.
Posted on 3/3/21 at 10:47 am to Pdubntrub
Totally agree, but if we are not giving freely, the government is going to force us to down the barrel of a gun.
Posted on 3/3/21 at 10:48 am to Mid Iowa Tiger
Christianity is literally the perfect individual saving humanity. Individualism is a right wing idea, the left has no use in individualism. That's at the core of both sides.
Posted on 3/3/21 at 10:53 am to Zach
quote:You are absolutely correct as to many of them (though there were certainly traditional Christians as well), but you might as well say they were Zoroastrians, for all the understanding of your point that you will see.
Yeah, the founding fathers weren't all Christians. They were deists.
Sometime ago, I read some interesting material about the deism of the founders. Basically, it divided even the deists into two categories, the traditional deists and the “Christian deists,” those who respected and followed the moral teachings of Jesus of Nazareth, without acknowledging any form of divinity.
Many people today will see a reference to “Jesus“ in something written by one of the Founders, and immediately jump to the assumption that such individual was a traditional Christian, as opposed to a Christian deist.
Jefferson is a perfect example. Adamant modern Christians will insist (loudly) that Jefferson was a traditional Christian. But one would need to look no further than his “Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth” to understand that he was a Christian deist.
This post was edited on 3/3/21 at 11:25 am
Posted on 3/3/21 at 10:56 am to TerryDawg03
quote:
I agree with your premise.
Jesus advocated looking after one another and taking care of your fellow man. I agree with this. I don’t think he ever states that it is the government’s role to do this. We should do it on our own.
There’s the argument that he says, “Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar’s.” Fair enough. But he never says that we can’t appoint another Caesar who we might better fit our ideals.
Good OP.
Jesus didn't mention politics or government because it's not important. It's all dust in the wind in the end. The only things that are eternal (at least here on earth) are souls.
Jesus didn't care who was in power, what mattered was saving souls.
That's my biggest critique of Christans. Most of you are so caught up in every day lives, participating in a consumeristic society, having several hobbies, etc. Almost no focus on the only thing that matters - saving souls.
My wife prays (pun) I don't go back to Christianity for if I did I'd be going overseas and spending as much money and time as I could to spread the gospel.
How many disciples owned businesses while they followed Jesus? How many of them worked 40hr weeks while following Jesus? How many slept under the same roof every night unless they're on vacation?
The world may have changed since then but Christianity hasn't.
Posted on 3/3/21 at 11:00 am to Flats
quote:
You can only use logic once you have a goal, and those goals are based on your values.
C'mon man...are you trying to derail the thread by attempting to suggest that my morality can not be logically based?
Words of the day in this thread...common ground.
Posted on 3/3/21 at 11:03 am to Revelator
quote:
On something like immigration, it might be easier for a person on the Left to make a scriptural argument on why they are right
citing Bible verses. I, on the other hand could site numerous reasons why unchecked immigration is problematic to me personally or to my country, but I don’t think I could use scripture to make my case?
No they can't.
quote:
Too often, I fall into the trap of
basing my positions, not on scripture first, but on the premise of how it affects me personally.
Christianity is personal. Not government system.
Posted on 3/3/21 at 11:05 am to Revelator
True, what I don't get how can you vote for a person who is pro-abortion and call yourself a Christian.
Posted on 3/3/21 at 11:05 am to Diamondawg
quote:
In my circle of Christian friends, I would say more lean to the more conservative views, though.
Me too
Posted on 3/3/21 at 11:06 am to AggieHank86
quote:
You are absolutely correct as to many of them (though there were certainly traditional Christians as well), but you might as well say they were Zoroastrians, for all the understanding of your point that you will see.
What? Christians understand exactly what he means. Violent revolution isn't a Christian idea. Saying that men who led a violent revolution aren't Christian is obvious to Christians. Now, were they actually Christians? No one knows, that's between them and God, we're saved by grace alone. But leading a violent revolution isn't a Christian idea.
Posted on 3/3/21 at 11:07 am to Mid Iowa Tiger
quote:
The shadow economy, human trafficking, and sex trade are all enhanced by unfettered immigration.
This is also true
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