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Started By
Message
re: Conservatism doesn’t always equal Christianity
Posted on 3/3/21 at 12:27 pm to AggieHank86
Posted on 3/3/21 at 12:27 pm to AggieHank86
quote:
I chose my wording carefully when I said “in the flesh
Got ya
This post was edited on 3/3/21 at 12:28 pm
0
Posted on 3/3/21 at 12:28 pm to TaderSalad
Agree. And the church buildings become elaborate while the people starve. 
Posted on 3/3/21 at 12:31 pm to Revelator
Conservatism is PARALLEL to Scripture, whether one is a believer or not. It is, as some have said, simple common sense. Show me one core Democratic principle that agrees with the Bible or common sense. Church folk do more to help the poor and needy than democrats by far. Dems USE "the poor" for their own political football.
Conservatism agrees with Scripture on Abortion, Gay Marriage, Sanctity of Marriage, two Genders, Beastality, Boundaries (Acts 17:26, Tower of Babel, Borders of Tribes of Israel, etc, etc), Patriotism, Work ethic ("If a man won't work, neither should he eat..."), and on and on and on...
I believe the foundation of Conservatism is Scripture, plain and simple.
Conservatism agrees with Scripture on Abortion, Gay Marriage, Sanctity of Marriage, two Genders, Beastality, Boundaries (Acts 17:26, Tower of Babel, Borders of Tribes of Israel, etc, etc), Patriotism, Work ethic ("If a man won't work, neither should he eat..."), and on and on and on...
I believe the foundation of Conservatism is Scripture, plain and simple.
Posted on 3/3/21 at 12:32 pm to AggieHank86
quote:
I’ll be honest. I’ve thought about this question quite a lot.
Had they ever met in the flesh, I don’t think Jesus would have liked Saul very much. Jesus seems like a pretty accepting guy, and Saul kinda seems like a judgmental prick.
Would Jesus have LOVED him? Perhaps. But I don’t think he would have LIKED him very much.
Saul, indeed. That's why, at least according to Paul, he was transformed when he met Jesus on the road to Damascus.
It's difficult for Christians to pick and choose parts of the New Testament to believe or not believe. It's kind of an all or nothing thing.
And yes, Saul was a prick. Paul, not so much.
Posted on 3/3/21 at 12:35 pm to Bayoubred
I don't disagree, but we should not "storm the capitol" in the name of Christ or hate Democrats in the name of Christ. Conservatism can easily become idolatry for a weak Christian.
Posted on 3/3/21 at 12:37 pm to T1
Local church here is doing a 3million dollar building reno that will add all of 100 seats.
sickening
sickening
Posted on 3/3/21 at 12:37 pm to ReauxlTide222
quote:
What’s is the Bible’s version of morality backed by?
If it's true it's backed by a creator. If the Bible is a fairy tale then it's backed by subjective opinion, just like your morality.
Posted on 3/3/21 at 12:43 pm to Jjdoc
quote:
You are taking liberties that you should not be. Specifically, he(the OP) was referring to Jesus and that is what the response was to.
Next you are being combative in your approach while not understanding the above.
Then, I stated.. ok. If you want to talk about Paul, I'm willing... but understand that the response was specific to Jesus.
Christians don't have the luxury of picking and choosing which parts of the New Testament to accept. So your point is taken, as a reference to Jesus alone, but as Christians, the New Testament is the Word of God, including what the authors passed down to us as Jesus' direct teachings, as well as Paul's letters an the other letters and the Revelations.
quote:
Again, what's that to the topic? You seem to be suggesting that Paul is saying to the church to form a government and nation state on Romans 13.
Nope. Not at all. Paul was questioned by members of the church about whether they should reject the Roman laws and rebel. Paul cautioned them to accept that the government in place at any given time is ordained by God and wouldn't be in place lest God admit it to be so.
This is true even in the case of an evil government, like today's liberals or their Roman counterpart, Nero. Nero, arguably is the Caesar in Rome when Paul was finally beheaded. One sick puppy.
Like Joseph's brothers who sold him into slavery and told their father he'd been killed by wild animals, God made more good come out of their evil than would have otherwise been possible. They would not have known that at the time they tossed him in a pit and waited for the slave traders.
Likewise, God has a reason for allowing people to make their own mistakes, including abandoning Him and forming tyrannical, lying, evil governments.
The Christian's duty, as best as I can understand Paul, is not to overthrow the current government any more than it was early Christian's mission to overthrow Rome. Paul advised them to be obedient, as he was, even after being in and out of Roman prisons.
That's clearly more than our Founding Fathers were willing to accept with Britain.
As it relates to whether Christians should simply allow lawlessness at the border because people elsewhere in the world are suffering - this is a false dichotomy liberals would have you accept.
Those aren't the only choices. We could shut the borders tomorrow and send more aid south to people that need it. We could overthrow their evil corrupt governments and implement a more honest system of government there, were our government not so corrupt. The point is, the choice between obeying the laws or being a Christian is often a false dichotomy that lacks imagination and compassion.
It's not an either/or. Liberals want you to think it is. But that's why God gave us brains.
If the New Testament seems contradictory, then we as Christians need to see if we're reading it correctly.
This post was edited on 3/3/21 at 12:45 pm
Posted on 3/3/21 at 12:46 pm to Revelator
I’ll add another comment.
Some American Christians feel that America has to play a role in the end time prophecies and must somehow exist when Jesus returns.
I can’t say either way, but it’s certainly not mandated in scripture.
Some American Christians feel that America has to play a role in the end time prophecies and must somehow exist when Jesus returns.
I can’t say either way, but it’s certainly not mandated in scripture.
Posted on 3/3/21 at 12:50 pm to BiteMe2020
quote:
And yes, Saul was a prick. Paul, not so much.
Ehh. Maybe less if one but he still comes across as pretty prickish.
Posted on 3/3/21 at 12:50 pm to Revelator
quote:
Some American Christians feel that America has to play a role in the end time prophecies and must somehow exist when Jesus returns.
Eschatology is arguably the most difficult part of the New Testament to decipher, and there are as many opinions as there are people reading it.
The rapture is not well founded, scripturally.
There is textual and documentary evidence that the number 666 was a direct reference to Emperor Nero in Rome, not some far distant future antichrist. This is based on a Latin variant that says the number of the beast is 616, instead of 666, which makes sense of the Latin way of referring to Caesar Nero (or Neron Kaiser in the Latin).
Furthermore, eschatology isn't limited to the Book of Revelations. Jesus' Sermon on the Mount was as much eschatological as Revelations.
I don't see a specific reference to America anywhere in the New Testament.
This post was edited on 3/3/21 at 12:52 pm
Posted on 3/3/21 at 12:51 pm to BiteMe2020
quote:
Which logical positions are those?
I bet at the end of the day, your atheism can't back up those logical positions at all.
First, I think you're misunderstanding what atheism is. It's just a way to describe my lack of belief in gods. It's not a framework or belief system anymore so than having to have a word for not believing in unicorns (aunicornist for instance) would come with a bunch of world views attached to it other than the one having to do with the existence of unicorns. This is also a problem I have with atheists who want to pretend that if you're an atheist it comes with all the baggage so many of them carry around.
That said, take abortion for instance. I'm actually strongly anti-abortion. I find myself there not because I believe in a god who creates all life and therefore it's sacred, or that only that god can take a life, etc. I take that position largely because I have no belief in an afterlife, and because of that I find life personally to be precious. The idea that someone could snuff out a human life, the only one I know we ever get, in most cases due to nothing more than inconvenience, drives me crazy. I think it's also a logical position to hold that whatever you call the thing in a woman's womb, it's clearly NOT the woman and if left unmolested will result in a human child when born. And if it's NOT the woman (it has it's own distinct DNA) then it's illogical to suggest that a woman has the right to remove and kill it simply because of the biology which has placed inside of her.
So. my views on abortion come from a secular point of view, not religious.
Posted on 3/3/21 at 12:51 pm to Flats
I doubt the Bible is true.
But even if it is, its purpose/intentions have been filtered through so many generations of stupid people that it has lost any legitimacy.
My version of morality is no more illegitimate than the one religious folk hold so dearly.
But even if it is, its purpose/intentions have been filtered through so many generations of stupid people that it has lost any legitimacy.
My version of morality is no more illegitimate than the one religious folk hold so dearly.
Posted on 3/3/21 at 12:53 pm to BiteMe2020
quote:When you are not affirmatively trying to be a smartass, you provide pretty decent objective anslysis.
BiteMe2020
Posted on 3/3/21 at 1:05 pm to GeauxTigerTM
"then it's illogical to suggest that a woman has the right to remove and kill it simply because of the biology which has placed inside of her."
If rights come from government then she has the right to do whatever... that's logical. What "other" right are you appealing to as an atheist?
If rights come from government then she has the right to do whatever... that's logical. What "other" right are you appealing to as an atheist?
Posted on 3/3/21 at 1:13 pm to BiteMe2020
quote:
Christians don't have the luxury of picking and choosing which parts of the New Testament to accept. So your point is taken, as a reference to Jesus alone, but as Christians, the New Testament is the Word of God, including what the authors passed down to us as Jesus' direct teachings, as well as Paul's letters an the other letters and the Revelations.
Wow.. again. You are hammering that it's raining outside and the topic isn't even the weather.
Nothing in the quote above had anything to do with what I stated. Not one.
Your comment is 100% correct but has zero relation to what was being talked about.
quote:
Nope. Not at all. Paul was questioned by members of the church about whether they should reject the Roman laws and rebel. Paul cautioned them to accept that the government in place at any given time is ordained by God and wouldn't be in place lest God admit it to be so.
This is true even in the case of an evil government, like today's liberals or their Roman counterpart, Nero. Nero, arguably is the Caesar in Rome when Paul was finally beheaded. One sick puppy.
Like Joseph's brothers who sold him into slavery and told their father he'd been killed by wild animals, God made more good come out of their evil than would have otherwise been possible. They would not have known that at the time they tossed him in a pit and waited for the slave traders.
Likewise, God has a reason for allowing people to make their own mistakes, including abandoning Him and forming tyrannical, lying, evil governments.
The Christian's duty, as best as I can understand Paul, is not to overthrow the current government any more than it was early Christian's mission to overthrow Rome. Paul advised them to be obedient, as he was, even after being in and out of Roman prisons.
That's clearly more than our Founding Fathers were willing to accept with Britain.
As it relates to whether Christians should simply allow lawlessness at the border because people elsewhere in the world are suffering - this is a false dichotomy liberals would have you accept.
Those aren't the only choices. We could shut the borders tomorrow and send more aid south to people that need it. We could overthrow their evil corrupt governments and implement a more honest system of government there, were our government not so corrupt. The point is, the choice between obeying the laws or being a Christian is often a false dichotomy that lacks imagination and compassion.
It's not an either/or. Liberals want you to think it is. But that's why God gave us brains.
If the New Testament seems contradictory, then we as Christians need to see if we're reading it correctly.
And I say again, what does that have to do with the topic. You continue to argue it's raining outside and we are talking what makes a great cut of meat.
So slow down, as a Christian, and digest what was being talked about before you tell others to post less and read the Bible more.
The OP stated that:
quote:
There appears to be a feeling on this board that conservatism and Christianity are the same thing. On something like immigration, it might be easier for a person on the Left to make a scriptural argument on why they are right citing Bible verses
He stated that the left could make an argument that open immigration is Biblical and taught by Jesus.
People asked where? And the things he pointed out pertained to the individual Christian, not Governments.
Posted on 3/3/21 at 1:14 pm to T1
quote:
If rights come from government then she has the right to do whatever... that's logical.
Who said rights come from the government? Are those the only two choices, gods or government? Could they possibly comes from "We the people?" If so, the fetus ought to have rights separate from the mother, since it is a separate entity as can be seen due to it's separately identified DNA.
quote:
What "other" right are you appealing to as an atheist?
I have zero interest in playing this game here anymore. For whatever reason, many of the religious folks here seem hellbent on trying to run out those on the right who happen to not adhere to their same religious beliefs. It's essentially the same level of purity testing you see from the far left, and it makes absolutely no sense in normal times. It's makes even less than that at a time like now, when our entire country is under assault.
I'm sorry that it seems to offend so many here that I and others can somehow live happy, healthy and productive lives AND align almost entirely with you politically, and also disagree with you about the existence of gods.
Posted on 3/3/21 at 1:15 pm to ReauxlTide222
quote:
My version of morality is no more illegitimate than the one religious folk hold so dearly.
Did I say it was? I simply said it was subjective and not based on logic.
Posted on 3/3/21 at 1:17 pm to Revelator
Well said. I've had this thought many times, but haven't been able to articulate it quite as well as you have.
Posted on 3/3/21 at 1:19 pm to GeauxTigerTM
"Are those the only two choices, gods or government?"
Yes. If we do whatever we want then we have the right to do everything/anything. You should have no problem with abortion as an atheist.
"I have zero interest in playing this game here anymore."
I'm not picking on you, just trying to get you to think a little bit. There is no such thing as "ought" if there is no God. Everything is subjective opinion.
Yes. If we do whatever we want then we have the right to do everything/anything. You should have no problem with abortion as an atheist.
"I have zero interest in playing this game here anymore."
I'm not picking on you, just trying to get you to think a little bit. There is no such thing as "ought" if there is no God. Everything is subjective opinion.
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